Your kid's luck is dependent on what you're doing.
The devil said cancer in both lungs. Well, these lungs sound good to me. Thank God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Welcome to the program. Are you looking forward to the return of Christ? Do you believe that Jesus is coming back soon?
If you do, this could be one of the most important programs you ever watch.
Well, the scriptures do give some indications of what will happen before Jesus comes back.
Many spectacular events have been taking place in recent years. Not least has been the increase in what many are calling revival.
These events have been marked by an apparent increase in signs, wonders, and miracles.
What is a miracle? The Oxford Dictionary describes a miracle as an event that is contrary to the established laws of nature and attributed to a supernatural cause.
The Webster's Dictionary describes a miracle thus, an accomplishment or occurrence so outstanding or unusual as a scene beyond human capability or endeavor.
Many today are claiming that God is manifesting miracles in their services.
Do the miracles we are witnessing today fit the definition I have just quoted or the description of miracles in the Bible?
And are the signs and wonders today of supernatural origin or are they the manipulation of man?
In this program, you will see the secrets of the charismatic movement uncovered.
You will also see beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Church is being perceived wholesale by a clever mixture of illusions, fraud, and lies.
In the introduction, there was a clip of the late Daisy Osborne, wife of Teal Osborne, testifying that she was healed from lung cancer.
Sadly, she later died of that same disease.
Why were people led to believe she was miraculously healed when it was a simple case of remission?
To find out more, stay tuned as we look at the music and ministry of the Signs and Wonders movement.
If ever we need revival, it's now.
Now we've been taught that revival is sovereign.
It's the sovereign move of God.
Que sera sera. Whatever will be will be. The future is not mine to see.
The Doris Day doctrine. If God wants revival, He'll do it.
We're just wondering, we'll just keep having services until one day He comes.
That's like a farmer saying, the crop will just come up if it wants to, it'll just be there.
I'm not going to go out there and plow the fields. I'm not going to go out there and sow the seed.
I'm not going to go out there and water the ground. I'm not going to go out there and tend the fields.
I'm not going to go out there and reap the harvest. It'll just come. I don't even need to do it.
Whatever will be will be. No. Revival is something that can be planned.
Revival is something that can be scheduled.
Then verse 3, call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.
And what I believe the Spirit is saying is this is still confined.
It's spreading around America. The fire is spreading. Tons of people, hundreds of thousands of people are being touched all over.
And God's saying it's still confined and it's about ready to burst. It's about ready to burst.
And the Spirit says, call to me. Take this as a personal word from God to you.
William Carey said, expect great things from God. The Father of modern missions.
Expect great things from God. Attempt great things for God.
Right now, understand this, in the last six years, one third of all church growth in the history of the world has taken place in the last six years.
Do you understand that?
One of the signs that Jesus said that we would be in the last times is that it would be as in the days of Noah.
Now there are many people today, they've come to me in many cases and confronted me and said, we believe the world is going to get better and better.
More and more people are going to come to Christ. There's going to be a great revival and the world is going to turn to Jesus.
Where does the Bible teach that? Jesus said, as it was in the days of Noah.
I don't think there was a great revival in the days of Noah. There was a great deception.
And that's why Jesus said, before I return, there will be a great deception. It will be like it was then.
People will be lovers of themselves, Paul said in 2 Timothy chapter 3, rather than lovers of God.
And if there's one thing that's taking place today in the Charismatic Church, is that people are in love with themselves.
I think Jesus and the apostles warned of manifestations and warned of deception in the end time, which is the very reverse of what's being promised.
I don't believe there's going to be a massive end time revival. I think there's going to be a massive end time departure from the truth.
People are going to fall away as persecution comes.
I think it's very clear, Matthew 7, those many will say to me in that day, Lord of Olives, didn't we prophesy in your name?
In your name we cast out devils. In your name we did miracles. Just the signs and wonders movement of the last days.
These people posed as Christian leaders. They maybe genuinely thought they were Christian leaders because what they're doing, they're doing it in the name of the Lord.
And they're doing signs and wonders. So I don't think that there's any doubt this is the Charismatic movement.
Now before T.L. comes, you know, Daisy is a miracle. She came as close to death with cancer as you could come without dying.
Here she is, a miracle of God. Let's rejoice in that. Amen.
It is hitting into different denominational groups. It is hitting different camps. It is sweeping across the waters. It is coming from every angle.
I'll tell you what, this wave of the glory of God is going to increase and I speak by the Holy Ghost.
No man will be able to stand in the wake of the glory of God. This is a mighty wave of the glory of God that has come to the earth in this day, in this hour.
For many have said it was coming and it's even now upon us. These are the days of the glory of God. These are the days of signs and wonders.
These are the days of the supernatural. This is the day of the manifestation of the power of God. This is what you've been praying about.
This is the big one. This is not the time to miss it. This is the time to realign and readjust yourself and say, God, I'm going to get in the middle of the river of the move of the Spirit of Almighty God.
Hallelujah. Yes, I believe, oh, hallelujah, the move of God that is about to sweep the earth, that is beginning even now, will be the move.
I believe there will us aback the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. God is preparing the church in this day and this hour.
He's preparing us. He's getting our hearts ready. Hallelujah. Prepare your hearts for the coming of the Lord. Joy now.
Man has not approached God like we do today. Old Testament is different. To the Jew, he said you do this or you die. It was the law.
But to you, he didn't give you a law. He gave you a way embodied in an actual personality called the Holy Spirit.
And if Jesus is the way, you can't get lost. If he's the truth, you cannot be deceived. If he's the life, the devil can't kill you. If he is what he says he is.
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and by our gathering together unto him,
that ye be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled, either by spirit nor by word nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come except their come falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.
And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be, and what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you, for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many.
Why were people led to believe that Daisy Osborne had been miraculously healed? Simple, because she said so.
Add to that the fact that high profile ministers were endorsing her healing from the pulpit, and that she is apparently without pain, and the illusion is complete.
Unfortunately, this is a type of evidence we as Christians should not blindly accept.
Scores and scores of unsuspecting people attend healing rallies and mount the stage to testify of a miraculous healing, because of the absence of pain.
Many of them later die. So why do hundreds of people experience freedom from pain, although they are not healed?
This is only one of the many questions we will answer during the program.
Many people believe that there are thousands of documented healings available to substantiate all the healing claims. Sadly, this is also untrue.
What is worse is when the leaders are challenged over their inability to produce medically attested miracles.
They reply, Oh, we don't need to prove anything.
Or they cover their tracks by saying that they themselves don't actually say that people are healed,
although they're kindly allowing people to testify to miracles that cannot be substantiated.
But even that is not true. Look at these clips.
But when you look at the cases that your own organization produces as evidence of successful faith healing,
and you provided nine of them recently, when the people looked at them in detail,
they found that there was no conclusive evidence of miracles in any of these cases.
And indeed, in some of them, the evidence that anything had happened as a result of your mission just crumbled in the investigation.
I have no response to that because many of the cases you have to speak to those people don't speak to me because I do not make the claims.
You have to understand that Andrew Morris does not make the claims.
But you make use of these claims. Of course, I do that as a testimony.
But even without considering alternative explanations, the people themselves might not necessarily be right.
But earlier in our conversation, you made a claim that five deaf mutes were able to hear again as a result of coming to your mission.
That is a claim. Yes. And it's a true one.
But you just told me that you don't make these claims.
No. I think if a person comes forward and testifies that they are healed, we give that testimony.
You can call it a claim. We don't claim it.
But we testify to that fact that this person came and said, I couldn't have a baby.
I was on medicine. Now I don't need the medicine anymore.
My child is born. I give God the glory for it.
Run. Run. Run with me.
Do you feel any pain in your legs? No. No pain at all? No.
Just run just a little bit with me. Come on. Run just a little bit with me. Oh, yes.
Put your hand up.
Cancer in the bones? She has cancer in the blood and the bones. It's all over.
Cancer in the blood and in the bones. I want you to just raise your hand and say,
Father, I thank you for the healing of the cancer of the bones.
I want to correct you. I'd correct the law, wouldn't I?
I want to correct you for the last time. I do not say to the individual, you're healed.
They are telling me they've been healed. So we're not the ones claiming they've been healed.
They're the ones claiming they've been healed.
Eileen Ferguson, you are healed by the power of God.
The disease, dear lady, has just died and you will live.
The Lord has healed you. Jesus is healing your mama.
As you can see, leaders like Benny Hinn and Maurice Cerello do not always tell the truth.
And these are not just slip-ups. Just how often they lie will be explored later in the program.
As Christians, we know that God can and does perform miracles according to His will.
And miracles could indicate that a true revival from God is underway.
There is no question that the so-called miracles and phenomena are the confirmation many charismatic seek
to prove that they are experiencing a revival.
If, on the other hand, it is not miracles that are being seen, then what is happening?
We find some clues in Richard Mayhew's book, The Healing Promise.
In this book, contributor Andre Cole, world-famous magician and illusionist,
shares some valuable insights into the craft of the faith healers.
All of us, whether Christian or not, have a curiosity and desire to see and experience the supernatural.
We want to believe that what we're seeing is real,
and therefore we let down our guard when it comes to spiritual discernment.
The faith healing performance that Benny Hinn and many others have presented through the years is basically an illusion act.
In this act, the illusion is created to make it appear that dozens or even hundreds of people
are being instantly and miraculously healed by God right before the eyes of the thousands of people
who attend these miracle crusades and the millions who watch by television.
The truth is that apart from certain psychosomatic illnesses that will respond to the suggestions of a faith healer,
Christian or non-Christian, very few people are ever healed of anything.
To understand the facts and the apparent results of the faith healing performance,
it is first essential to understand the difference between faith healing and divine healing.
The two are not the same. Faith healing can be done by anyone, Christian or not.
Divine healing is something that only God can do.
I've adopted a policy of when I've been dealing with a healer or somebody who's written a book on cases of miracles,
or has got a series of cases, to go for the best ones. I've asked them to produce their best ones.
By asking them to do the work, it takes away any accusation that I might be biased by just picking duff cases
and showing that they don't stand up under scrutiny. So the healer himself has been asked to come back with cases.
Because that puts him under a lot of pressure. If he can't, then where is he at?
And this is what I did to Maurice Sorello. I asked him, after one of his London missions,
asked him on television to produce his three best cases.
After a period of a few weeks, he produced a list of actually six cases
where permission was given to get to the medical details,
and none of those six were shown to have anything physical that had happened to them.
They felt better. Some felt better. But there was no evidence of a physical miracle having taken place.
I think there are a number of scriptures that indicate this.
The Charismatic Movement, the Signs and Wonders Movement of the last days, 2 Timothy 3 verse 8,
Now as Janies and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth?
Men of corrupt minds reprobate concerning the faith.
Janies and Jambres were not atheists. They were the magicians of Pharaoh's court,
who up to a point duplicated the miracles that God did through Moses and Aaron, but they did it by the power of Satan.
So Paul is saying, you want to know the opposition to the truth of the last days?
It's going to come from atheists. It's going to come from those within the church who claim to be doing God's work,
but they're doing it in the power of Satan.
And Jesus said, many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord.
So here again we have that indication. They're crept in, unaware.
As Paul says, of your own selves shall men arise.
After my departing, grievous wolves will enter in, not sparing the flock, and so forth.
So we get the impression that these are not enemies on the outside of the church,
but the worst thing possible has happened. There's a betrayal of Christ in the inside of the church.
I think Christians will be very easily deceived because Jesus was the one who constantly warned his close disciples
to be on their guard and to watch out, particularly those who come with grandiose signs and wonders, great claims.
The classic verse is when people will come, Jesus says, in my name, saying I am the Christ.
A much misunderstood passage this, because at first sight it makes no sense at all.
How can come in Jesus' name and say I am Jesus? That clearly makes nonsense.
But of course if we remember that Christ means anointed one, then it makes a lot more sense,
and we're seeing a lot of that today. I have the anointing, the anointing of Christ.
I am coming in Jesus' name. I will use Jesus' name.
But people can be, therefore, easily misled. He's using Jesus' name. He must be from God.
This is not so, and I think many Christians are going to be easily deceived
and are already being deceived by people claiming this anointing.
The Antichrist, who if you like is the big one, will fit into that mold very easily
if Christians are already persuaded in this way.
The only phenomena that points to end-time prophecy that is occurring in churches, in my opinion, is apostasy.
There's all the talk about end-time revival. I don't see an end-time revival as I search the Scriptures.
The Scriptures plainly declare that there is an end-time falling away, and that's, no question, is happening.
No, the joy will bubble right out of your chest. Don't pray, it's not a prayer meeting. Let the joy bubble.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Rajneesh says his goal is to create a new man, one who is happily mindless.
Calm through, calm through, calm through.
Glory! Glory!
This is called dynamic meditation.
This violent frenzy continues on and on, creating a mind-altering form of hyperventilation.
Wild movement alternates with periods of utter stillness.
God will not be accomplished just by the word alone.
You see, we need to learn to follow the Holy Ghost.
I've been to meetings where I've seen and heard the manifestations of what was known as the Toronto Phenomena.
I've seen people falling down in uncontrollable laughter. I've heard the grunting. I've heard people crowing and so on.
I've heard the interpretations of that, these weird and wonderful interpretations that came from Christian leaders, so called,
who tried to plug those into scripture so that the cock crowing was equivalent to the Peter's cock crowing.
Just incredible cows, lowing and mooing and so on. I've seen all this.
Not only is it tragic because it is people just allowing themselves to be manipulated and doing the things that is expected of them,
and the mind boggles that intelligent people can sometimes be caught up in this,
but it's spiritually disastrous because so many of these people wake up to the reality that it has done nothing for them spiritually.
And even if it has done something for them spiritually, that doesn't make the experience right.
That's a point that has to be borne in mind. People can be helped.
You can come up with any number of wonderful testimonies of people whose lives have been changed by the Toronto Phenomena.
There are two answers to that. God in His sovereign mercy sometimes reaches into our lives and changes us in spite of our disobedience and our foolishness.
And the other answer is it would be a strange thing if somebody, somewhere, sometime wasn't helped by some of the things that have been going on.
But that does not make them Christian experiences, and that's what we have to be asking all the time.
Throughout the world today there are many so-called evangelists who are claiming that they have these supernatural powers
in which they are able to transfer these new gifts. People will laugh and shake, twitch, fall over, jump up and down like they are on pogo sticks.
Some laughing hysterically, some even behaving like animals.
And these people claim that they are bartenders of the Holy Spirit. They are able to give this anointing away.
Now the question is, is this biblical? Where in the Scriptures do we find that in the last days people will laugh hysterically in the Church?
Where do we find that people will behave like animals, roar like lions, bark like dogs, crow like roosters,
and that this would be a sign that this is of the Spirit of God? I do not find this anywhere in the Scriptures at all.
And this is why I am deeply troubled and concerned regarding what is taking place in the Church.
I believe that many people are being convinced that they are receiving the Holy Spirit when it's not the Holy Spirit,
and they are actually being deceived and they are opening the door for a delusion which was preparing the way for the Antichrist.
This is what's happening. When the Spirit of God comes on people, there are various manifestations.
This is what's happening all over this country.
Lord of your presence there, eyes up, shine, the light is coming.
This is your presence, Lord of your power. God is doing this all over the country. This is the power of the Holy Ghost. More Lord, more of your power.
In the name of Jesus Christ, I am praying for you, Lord of your power, that you may come to me and give me your blessing.
Although there are many people today in the world embracing these strange kinds of behavior,
the shaking, the twitching, the jumping up and down like they are on pogo sticks,
or this unusual laughing, hysterical laughing, or even animal behavior,
claiming that this is something new, that this is from God, I find no basis for this kind of behavior as something that is given to us by the Holy Spirit.
It's not found in the Bible.
But we can find in the literature a description of this kind of behavior as something which comes from what's called the serpent power, the Kundalini.
For example, I have in my hand here a book called The Stormy Search for Self by Grof and Grof, psychotherapists.
And on page 78 and 79 they describe what happens to people who are overcome by the serpent power.
Quote, individuals involved in this process, that is the Kundalini, might find it difficult to control their behavior.
During powerful rushes of Kundalini energy, they often emit various involuntary sounds, and their bodies move in strange and unexpected patterns.
Among the most common manifestations of this kind are unmotivated and unnatural laughter or crying,
talking in tongues, singing previously unknown songs and spiritual chants, assuming yogic postures and gestures, and imitating a variety of animal sounds and movements.
So here in a book which describes occultic behavior, we find all of the symptoms of what we're seeing today in the church where people are claiming this is a gift from God.
I don't find any basis in the Word of God for this kind of behavior, but I do find a basis in the literature describing occultic.
Thank you Father for bringing that left leg up in the name of Jesus. Hallelujah.
Now you can park in the handicap zones. Thank you Jesus. Hallelujah. Thank you for total healing in Jesus' name.
Do your legs want to hang there? Do they want to go down? They want to just stay there?
The longest I've known of legs staying up is four hours.
Who's prepared to do that? Hands up please. We're going to choose you sir. Yes, come down. Let's give him a nice big round of applause.
What's your name sir? Phil. Phil. Okay, and have you met Mr. Ignatenko before today? No. Okay.
What we'd like to do is just bring on a mat because in a moment Mr. Ignatenko is going to knock you over. Not with a physical punch, but with a psychic punch. Okay? Yep.
So what I want you to do is stand there and just look at Mr. Ignatenko.
I'll now prepare the young man so that his system was able to receive my energy properly.
Please.
How did you feel? Um, strange. What was it like? It was just like going off balance, just gently falling backwards. Did it feel like someone had punched you? Not punched, um, gently pushed.
You ever had any PK experiences or telepathy experiences before? No, none at all. Have you been hypnotized earlier? No. Never been hypnotized before? No.
I've got a few questions for Mr. Ignatenko. Mr. Ignatenko, how do you do this?
I use my ki, my sai energy, which is in my organism. And what's it got to do with telepathy?
Telepathy? I sent a certain thought to him and it was immediately realized.
Because I actually transmitted my thought to him and this thought was actually transposed into action immediately.
Okay, thank you. Touch! I can hardly stand. Dig it, brother.
Twice a week several hundred people, most of them women, line up to consult a holy woman who has gained a reputation for healing and prophecy. The healer jerks her head, closes her eyes and puts herself in a trance.
Sick people come to her. She is also consulted by the unemployed, the lovelorn and other people worried about their future.
She mutters to herself and occasionally to her patients. She treats the sick by laying on her hands and blowing on their head.
Every visitor gives a few notes or coins. She doesn't have fixed charges. But in the week the donations add up to more than the salary of a newly qualified doctor.
She has assumed the spirit of a god, so people are prepared to give freely.
The Oxford dictionary defines hypnosis thus.
An artificially induced state of relaxation and concentration in which deeper parts of the mind become more accessible. Used clinically to reduce reaction to pain and to encourage free association.
Catalepsy is described as a state of prolonged rigid posture occurring for example in schizophrenia or in hypnotic trances.
The hospital has been quite honest. They have said we can't do no more for him at this moment. So we thought we would try Stephen.
It's just sad to see him because you see other children playing outside and we just can't go outside the door when it's sunny. They both know if it's sunny then Jack's bad. But it's just is this it for the next three or four years until they can find out what it is.
And a week after his visit to Stephen Turok, Jack Yo's eyesight has shown a marked improvement according to his parents. He's been a lot happier. We've been able to go out for days. Today we went away for the day which was pretty much impossible. We're just a complete family again at the moment. We can go out, we can play.
The first time in nearly three years that we've all sat together in the sun in the garden and I just couldn't believe it.
He's just gone from being a pain really. It's really been a really hard work to being quite normal.
I'm hoping it's going to be a miracle. If Jack sustains this progress then it will come to be a miracle.
When we see people like Benny Hinn, Howard Brown and many others causing people to fall over, be blown on and fall in heaps, to be struck dumb, all these kind of phenomena that we can see on these tapes which are hailed as the work of the Holy Spirit.
Clearly you're not that for a whole host of reasons. But what is it? The answer is hypnosis. Talking to any stage hypnotist they can achieve all these same effects quite easily with no problem at all. And I would have that on full testimony. I've spoken to hypnotherapists and people who have conducted stage hypnotism and they looked at this material and said I could do all of that without any difficulty whatsoever.
I don't find any examples in the scripture of slaying the Spirit as it is practiced now. I find Ananias and Sapphira, they were really slaying in the Spirit. But yes, Saul fell down and prophesied and so forth.
When Jesus said I am the garden they fell backwards to the ground. But this was because you're trying to make them do it, you're touching them and so forth. It just isn't a biblical teaching. It's not a biblical phenomenon, however I can tell you it's in the occult.
And Hindu gurus do it, spiritists do it and so forth. Exactly the same thing. It's called a Shakti path in Hinduism. Shakti being the force, path, touch. And the guru touches you, Muktananda, whoever.
The garage niche touches you even with a peacock feather. Even on the back of your head you didn't know they were touching you. You're off on some trip, occult trip. So this is partly what's being practiced. Some of it is the power of suggestion.
The Lord said to me just go down and walk up to the first person and put your finger just lightly in the forehead and say in the name of Jesus. Now remember I said nothing about tongues, Holy Ghost, fire, fire, power, nothing. I just said who wants a blessing.
And they come to line up, I walk down and take my finger, take it, put it in the forehead of the first person and I said in the name of Jesus. Didn't even have time to say this. Didn't even have time to get this out. It looked like an angel stood there with a baseball bat and smacked them up the side of the head.
I've talked to these people, these people go through this over and over and over. I've talked to them, they can't tell you what happened or what benefit they got from it. It's just signs and wonder. It makes people think that something is really happening. But it's entirely different.
This is not God sovereignly doing something, but this is someone who is creating this, who is making this sort of thing happen, fabricating it. Hypnosis is not mentioned in the Bible by that term, but you would find it in Deuteronomy 18, you would find it in other places.
It's called charming, charming a serpent, surely the serpent will, or it's called enchanting, the serpent will bite without enchantment and so forth. And it is absolutely forbidden in the Bible. It is a powerful occult technique which puts you into an altered state of consciousness.
And that opens you up to all kinds of delusion. If the hypnotist mind can control you, then certainly another mind can interpose itself and begin to involve you.
In terms of what is commonly called today slaying in the spirit, I don't believe there is any example at all in Scripture. You know the ones that are often referred to, for example, Daniel by the River Keebar when he had an overwhelming sense of the awesome sovereignty, glory of God, and fell down as one dead.
And he did the same on the Isle of Patmos in the light of that wonderful vision of Christ. One significant difference between those two accounts I've mentioned and all so-called slaying in the spirit today is that there was no human intermediary involved.
Slaying in the spirit today necessitates someone who is going to manipulate the group or the individual and actually perform the act of slaying. There is no example of that in Scripture.
People come with no legs and want me to draw them new legs, or their eyes have gone completely and they want me to put new eyes in their body. You can't do that.
People say you're happy. Yeah, yeah, of course I'm happy because I'm in love. Who are you in love with? God. I'm in love with everybody.
They say, but you always have this bounce and go and you work so long. Do you take drugs? Yeah. Oh yeah. Well what drug do you take? Oh, I take a drug that's very special. Where do we get it? Oh, it's everywhere.
Well what drug is it? I take vitamin G. I take vitamin G. All day long I fill my body with vitamin G. Where do you buy it? It's free.
It gives you such a buzz. It gives you such a buzz. Vitamin God, that's all you need.
As you can see from the various clips of gurus, psychics and charismatic healers, there is absolutely no difference in the phenomena or the manifestations.
The reason is plain. The techniques for achieving their results are identical. It is not a new move of God. In fact, as you can see, it is nothing new at all.
It is techniques, not miracles, which are behind the signs and wonders, whether it is slaying in the spirit, laughing uncontrollably, laying on hands and blowing, or the so-called healings.
Charismatic Christians should not only be concerned that the manifestations they are experiencing are being promoted by occultists, but that these same manifestations, which are being produced in their churches, are brought about using the same techniques.
Psychic surgeon Stephen Cheroff was honest enough to admit that organic disorders like missing limbs and missing eyes could not be healed through him.
The same, of course, is also true of Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, Catherine Coleman, and every other faith healer who is claiming that God is doing miracles through them.
The one thing they all have in common is that they can create the illusion that miracles are taking place, under the right conditions, of course.
But when it comes to real miracles, like those produced by the Lord Jesus Christ, leprosy, profound deafness, curved spines, or even death itself, charismatic leaders are as helpless as their psychic counterparts.
Despite all their claims through television, books, and videos, not one of the charismatic leaders featured in this program has ever produced medical evidence for a single case of an organic disorder miraculously healed.
Whether it is Benny Hinn, Colin Dye, Ray McCauley, or anyone else.
If none of them can produce medical evidence for a real miracle of organic healing, surely the time has come to put up or shut up.
Providing so-called testimonies of healing is not sufficient.
Jesus could heal all manner of diseases. No music, no hype, and no human intervention. And they were miracles that were medically verified.
The charismatic healers can only do what any other hypnotist, new-ager, or guru can do.
It is not difficult to tell what is the counterfeit. You only need to look at the evidence.
We're so conditioned for the occult. We're so conditioned for those who are in show business that have hypnotism, that we assume if it comes into the church anything that smacks of that, ah, it's of the devil.
They don't realize that the occult, or what people do in the way of hypnotism, is the counterfeit.
And we've seen so much of the counterfeit that we're not prepared to affirm when God does something like He's been able to do for years, but we just haven't seen it.
We're not prepared for it. And so we say, it can't be of God.
People often speak about the fact that, well, the devil will always counterfeit the real that God gives.
Well, I think when you think about that carefully, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
The idea that everything the devil does, God must have his sort of antidote to, or version of, I think is clearly dubious.
But I would be tempted to say that nearly all that we see in the charismatic churches that have gone overboard today is a counterfeit of the devil, to put it mildly, because a lot of it actually is natural.
As I've explained, it's hypnosis, it has a perfectly straightforward explanation, and yet they claim, you know, this is something of God.
So in one way I'd say it's even a counterfeit of what the devil can do, rather than the other way round.
I understand the argument that the world will always, and Satan will always, counterfeit whatever God is doing, so that if there is, let's say, a slaying in the spirit, the devil will have his counterpart, and so on.
But there is a relevance in the argument, so the only way we're going to break through that is to ask the fundamental question, what we are seeing in the Christian context, irrespective of whether it has a secular, non-religious counterpart.
The question we ask is, is this a biblical experience? Is it a theological, correct thing? Is it right, biblically?
And when we ask that question, we come up with a number of answers. Now let me give you an example of that.
We've perhaps peaked in the whole Toronto issue, so to talk about some of the Toronto phenomena is almost history.
That's now boring, we've moved on from that, we're looking for the next exciting thing.
But let's just lock into it for a moment, because there's an awful lot of people that are trying to disown and say, well, we never really were too worried about the laughter and the animal noises.
But I have to tell you that at the time, they were evident, so-called, of the work of the Spirit of God.
Now when I test the animal noises, so-called Christians speaking in the noises of animals, I have a very simple test.
The scriptures give me a couple of occasions where animals were made to speak like men.
There is not one occasion in the entire pages of scripture where men spoke like animals, and the reason for that is that Christ came to redeem us from animal behaviour and lifestyle and make us into the sons of God.
So the children of God to be speaking like animals and grunting like pigs is totally and unequivocally contrary to scripture and biblical Christian theology.
Very often, if you criticise the Charismatics for visualisation, visualising Jesus, for example, or some of their occult techniques, I mean, John Wimmer would teach you to move your hand over somebody's body when you feel heat.
That's where the Holy Spirit is at work. That's an occult technique.
They would say, well, but that's, and you say, but the occultists use this sort of thing. This is in the occult. This comes from the occult.
They would say, oh, but the occult, that's Satan's counterfeit of what we have is the real thing from God.
Well, as a matter of fact, that's not valid reasoning.
What is the real Ouija board that the Ouija board is the counterfeit of?
What is the real crystal ball from God that the crystal ball that the occultists use is the counterfeit of?
To say that Satan only counterfeits and everything Satan does is a counterfeit of what God does.
Therefore, everything that Satan does, there must be some genuine manifestation that is of God simply isn't true.
We're not to get involved in divinization.
Deuteronomy 18 says, well, then there's no real divinization that satanic divinization is a counterfeit of.
So it simply doesn't work. These things are absolutely forbidden to us.
But unfortunately, the Charismatic Movement has gotten involved in them.
I've watched tapes at Brownsville of baptism, and I don't find Christ being glorified.
And very often the testimonies are about laughing or I got this twitch or, you know, whatever.
And then some of those people would drown if there weren't people there to take them out of that baptismal tank.
I've seen them going through such wild gyrations.
It takes sometimes three or four guys to control them and haul them out.
This is not of God. This is not glorifying to the Lord.
And the basis for this thing, there was two and a half or more years of prayer and fasting, binding territorial spirits.
There's no such thing as territorial spirits.
And it's preceded by each service is preceded by an hour and a half or more of music, so-called music.
Much of it is shallow, repetitive singing, which puts you into an altered state.
There's no real content to it. And it's repetitive. And you drift off.
People are dancing and so forth. I think they're getting them into a state where they would believe in anything.
Now, that's not of God as well. There's got to be a basis of understanding the gospel.
I've watched the...I met with Mike Brown, for example, the theologian in residence there at Brownsville.
And I said, I have watched half a dozen of your videos. I've seen hundreds of people come forward.
I've never heard a clearer presentation of the gospel yet.
That's another tip off. What are they coming forward for? To get it, to get this experience,
but not to be taught the word of God. And that's a tragedy.
Many people have varying opinions as to what hypnosis actually does.
And although some of the reactions to hypnosis and its side effects are not clearly understood,
for many years doctors, psychics and occultists have used hypnosis to create a state of suggestibility in their subjects,
whereby changes can be made to both their physiological and mental states.
The most common response to hypnosis is in one's reactions to pain,
as the awareness of pain greatly diminishes in a person who is in a suggestible state or one whose mind is refocused.
And as you can see, even surgery is possible under these conditions.
The subject is not, as many suppose, in some kind of mystical trance.
Rather, their will has been given over to the hypnotist or counselor,
allowing him to implant ideas that are accepted and subsequently experienced as reality.
The dangers that can arise from this are too frightening to contemplate.
Aside from all this, what does the Bible say about the use of hypnosis and mind-controlling techniques?
Hypnosis and altered states of consciousness are a very worrying phenomena, I believe.
We've wrapped it up, sanitized it. Scientists use these techniques, or doctors use some of these techniques.
It worries me a great deal when Christians start to talk in terms of altered states of consciousness,
or use hypnosis in therapy.
The Old Testament, Deuteronomy in particular, warns against seeking manifestations,
seeking interaction with the spirit world through a variety of techniques.
It doesn't explicitly mention hypnosis, but what the New Testament warns us is that we must be self-controlled at all times.
One of the fruits of the Holy Spirit's ministry in our lives is self-control.
In Romans, Paul talks about the renewing of your mind.
Use your minds, think these things through, understand them.
When Christians say, it doesn't really matter what you believe, or don't worry about the mind, it's the experience that matters, feel it.
I'm very worried because we must never disengage our minds.
The Scriptures are very clear that we are not to use any kind of mind-altering techniques.
That's part of what is cursed.
Deuteronomy, in my opinion, says that you are forbidden to use any kind of charming, and charming is what hypnosis really is.
I was a hypnotist before I became a believer.
I taught medical hypnosis, I did stage hypnotism.
And everything that is being done now in the name of God, in terms of the mass meetings of signs and wonders,
could be duplicated by a hypnotist, by a good stage hypnotist.
Even a bad stage hypnotist could duplicate.
These people, of course, would claim, I've never learned how to hypnotize anyone or anything like that.
Indeed, I have spoken to ministers who have said that to me.
The truth is, they have been taught without any question at all.
Any of these conferences where the big events are happening, Catch the Fire, Arnott's conferences, all the rest of it,
they have classes for ministers as to how to impart the blessing.
If you actually look through their agenda and compare it to the process of stage hypnotism, it's exactly the same.
The language is different.
But nonetheless, the actual things being imparted to the ministers as to what to do are identical.
In the book, The Signs and Wonders Movement Exposed, pages 70 through 71,
an 11-step help guide designed to assist the vineyard leaders minister the Holy Spirit
is compared to the process of induction employed by stage hypnotists.
The techniques are almost identical.
Altered states of consciousness, I think, are very much overstated.
Hypnotists particularly encourage the view that people are going into a mystical trance and are no longer in control of themselves.
I have a much more low key view of this.
I think what primarily happens in hypnotism is that the person concerned allows his will to be taken over by someone else.
He remains fully conscious.
And to that extent, he's fully responsible for what he's done.
But he willed himself into a situation that I will do what the hypnotist says.
And as such, he's very vulnerable.
And of course, the hypnotist can say all sorts of crazy things to him and feed in all sorts of crazy ideas.
But he's not in any profound trance.
If you measure his brain waves, they're not radically affected.
He's not gone into a sleep pattern or anything like that.
He might well be relaxed, but he's fully conscious and aware of what he's doing at all points in the process.
I've seen in Christian meetings the kind of phenomena that is talked about in the Toronto phenomena.
I've seen and heard people who have been in uncontrollable laughter, speechlessness, a gibbering, manically strange noises.
And I've compared that with what I have seen on record in films and so on from other religions, including New Age, including Hinduism.
And in many cases, it's very hard to see the difference between the two.
Now, that has to alert us to a serious danger, at least, that there is a possibility of this being not a valid Christian experience.
That's when we come to the Bible to test it.
But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
how that they told you there should be muckers in the last time who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
It is very easy to distinguish between the work of the Holy Spirit in physical healing
and the so-called healings achieved by the faith healers.
In fact, the results themselves are our guide as to which are produced by divine intervention and which are caused using hypnotic techniques.
In Proverbs 17 22, it says,
A merry heart doeth good like a medicine, but a broken spirit drive up the bones.
Following this line, the Charismatic Crusades major on entertainment, not exposition.
The leaders know that manufacturing the right atmosphere is crucial to the process of pain relief,
thereby creating the illusion that miracles are taking place.
To understand the difference between faith healing and divine miracles,
we must understand the difference between organic and functional disorders.
Dr. Eric Cicco, a medical doctor, provides us with a simple explanation.
A functional disease is one associated with a change in function of a bodily organ or tissue without any tissue damage.
An organic disease is one associated with a demonstrable change in a bodily organ or tissue.
One additional point we need to understand is that in all diseases, both functional and organic, there exists an emotional component.
It is this emotional component that elicits a true physiologic response, such as seen in the placebo effect.
This response, along with the fact that many symptoms are very much subjective,
is responsible for patients experiencing decreased pain with a broken bone,
decreased insulin requirements in diabetes, decreased frequency of chest pain or pressure episodes in coronary artery disease, etc.
Also, in the highly festive and emotionally charged atmosphere of a faith healing service,
the brain can be stimulated to release endorphins into the nervous system,
which science says are pain suppressants 200 times more potent than morphine.
This is why people can honestly say the pain is gone and sincerely believe they're healed until the effect wears off hours or days later.
It's important to understand that the symptoms of an organic disease, such as pain, can be helped and relieved
through some of the psychological principles that make faith healing work.
However, the mere removal of the pain is far different from the actual healing of the disease causing the pain.
About 25 years ago, when I was a medical student, I heard a lecture from a surgeon who was very concerned
that he was seeing patients who were delaying coming to the doctor with their malignancies
because they'd first of all gone to the healer and they had delayed for a fatal two or three months
and then presented to him and he said there was nothing he could do,
that the cancer had already spread by the time he saw them.
So far from healing people, he saw these healers actually killing people.
And as a Christian, that worried me enormously.
I thought, wow, if that's happening then this is very serious and we've got to monitor this carefully.
And so my ears have always pricked up since when stories of miraculous healing have been floated around
to ask the next question, what's actually going on here?
Has the person been healed? Do they really have what they claim to have?
So it's gone on since then.
I know a number of people who have suffered seriously as a result of the Signs and Wonders movement.
I think of a man with severe manic-depressive psychosis who when he's on the tablets he's fine,
he's able to function in the community and gets on well.
But sooner or later, because he's a Christian, he goes to a Christian group
and someone encourages him to stop the tablets and to trust God instead.
And when the tablets stop, he becomes unwell and he has to be readmitted to hospital.
He's done that repeatedly over many years.
I know the sad story of a woman who came out of hospital with her newborn babe
and about ten days later started to bleed dramatically.
Now, medically doctors realize this is a crisis situation and that bleeding needs to be stopped very promptly.
Instead, she called in the prayer group and they prayed over her and she bled to death, leaving a widow and an orphan.
I know a woman who was a doctor who became depressed and went to a healing group
where they encouraged her to trust God and to stop the tablets.
It's a tragedy when depressed people stop their tablets.
She became profoundly depressed and killed herself.
I know of two epileptics who stopped their tablets.
One had a fit in the street and was hit by a bus and another had a fit in the bath and drowned.
So there are great tragedies that can happen by people getting thoroughly confused about these treatments.
If you look at the sort of conditions where people do claim to be better having gone to a healing meeting,
then there are a very similar range of conditions that are found at the hands of almost all alternative therapists,
whether reflexologists, homeopathists, hypnotists, or the various different types of faith healing or crystal healing or whatever.
They all seem to affect similar types of diseases.
It is people who get the migraines and other psychosomatic conditions that are clearly driven by their mental state who are likely to get the benefit.
The frankly physical things such as broken bones and tumors are not influenced and affected by these things.
I would give some credibility to the view that healing of psychosomatic illnesses are miraculous
if they were also healing other types of illness because what it said of Jesus is that he healed all kinds of diseases.
Presumably Jesus healed people who had psychosomatic illnesses, but he clearly also healed the man who was born blind,
the woman with the fixed curvature of the spine, the man with the withered hand.
So if they were doing those things as well, then one would see the power of God shown in their ministry.
But when the only people who seem to be getting better are people who have psychosomatic conditions
and when not seeing the physical, the more overtly physical things healed,
then we have to question very seriously whether they are doing anything remarkable at all.
Well, the reason that these states of altered consciousness are dangerous is because, in my opinion,
it opens you up to seducing and familiar spirits.
The wrecked lives that occur after individuals attend these meetings are never documented.
We hear of them here because we have the National 800 number, the hotline, the victim's hotline,
where people that have experienced this phenomena in the mass meetings,
the endorphins are released into their system by their own hormonal system,
and they then long for that feel-good feeling that came from that experience or that alleged anointing.
And they end up in terrible psychological conditions.
And that's what's so sad.
And many people then become totally turned off of God because they believe that somehow,
if they can't sustain that strong feeling, then there must be something wrong with them.
And so they keep going back for more and more and more.
When you look at today's charismatic magazines, and it's in many of the mainline magazines,
there's a different conference advertised almost every week where you go to get the anointing.
Well, Jesus said, I mean, you don't need to go anywhere.
The kingdom of God is within you if you just pick up the cross and abandon yourself to His love.
When you look at what's happening in many of these meetings, the Toronto blessing, the Pensacola,
all of the phenomena that's taking place in England,
you see that people enter into it in the first stage of hypnosis
because they are going expecting a particular phenomena.
That's the first stage of hypnosis.
Then the use of music and the use of repetitive music and almost a chanting
is a common occult technique to create suggestibility.
And what you end up with is this phenomena that can be duplicated in any setting in anybody's name.
We could do it in the name of Bruce.
And it certainly isn't edifying to God.
When we look at the ancient civilizations of the past, there's one thing that we see is very common.
They're involved in various kinds of practices which alter their state of consciousness,
whether it be through chanting or the use of music or taking hallucinogenic drugs.
They open the door to a spiritual dimension and all through state of consciousness
in which they perceive a spiritual dimension.
And of course, from a biblical perspective, we need to be extremely careful
because we know there is a spiritual dimension.
Part of that dimension is holy.
Another part of the dimension is unholy.
And since the fall of man in the Garden of Eden,
the unholy spiritual realm has done everything they can to interfere in the affairs of mankind.
And it's through these altered states of consciousness that that door can be opened to that fallen dimension.
The Spirit of God operates by certain principles, certain ways that you know it's the Spirit.
Number one is He cannot be kept.
Therefore, if somebody comes to you and says they're a holy bartender or they are a healer
or their gift is healing, run from them.
Because the gifts of the Spirit are given severally as He wills to the body.
And normally it's our experience that the healings and the phenomena of the Holy Spirit
come through the weakest member of the body, not some showman.
At the beginning of the program, we clearly define miracles as works which only God can do.
Of course, the signs and wonders workers would state that it is God doing miracles through them.
And few, if any, would directly claim that they themselves are performing the miracles.
However, God is not manifesting miracles through them.
And anyone with the right training and props can produce the results they achieve.
In this section of the program, we will show you how this is accomplished.
When the stage magician puts a woman in a box and saws her in half, we all know that it is an illusion.
But most of us are not in a position to open the box and see how the illusion is created.
Music
History being made.
We're history making.
Music
I want to celebrate Jesus with so many people.
It will be a wonderful occasion.
You know, you go on a webinar, you've got to take a football landing really.
God is just a brilliant, it's a chance to praise God and everything is brilliant.
Anything can happen.
It's going to be brilliant.
This is your day for a miracle from Seattle, Washington.
Music
The third thing I think is the most important of all, and this is the setting of the atmosphere.
And I'm telling you, worship and praise sets an atmosphere for the gifts of the Spirit.
He knew how to give thanks in all his circumstances.
And what did he do?
In him, he set the atmosphere for the Spirit to speak to him.
You say, I want the Spirit to move.
Well, honey, set the atmosphere.
Now, you say, I don't know, this is really far out tonight.
Isn't that wonderful?
You need to get far out.
You say, well, we're walking on the water.
No, we're not.
We're walking on the word.
In my meetings in the crusades that you've been to, music plays a big part in our meetings.
But in other evangelist services in the past and some even today, you know, music doesn't play a big part.
Why?
Is it because of me or is it because of what God is doing?
Another ingredient to revival is worship.
We spend hours worshiping in these meetings.
The more you worship, the more the glory of God comes down.
I think what we have to realize that we're in the middle of a worldwide revival.
Who would have thought that revival would be coming here?
And now here we are in the middle of a series of meetings in Westminster,
before Richard's and I are meeting Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday at the Emmanuel Centre in Westminster.
And we're just going to keep going till we stop.
Thousands of people have come to get right with God.
They've brought their friends to do the same.
And now here we are at Wembley, tens of thousands coming together to declare we are interested in the big story.
One of the great things about revival is it's first of all preceded by prayer and secondly, music.
And we're going to see them here today.
Everyone who has been to a charismatic crusade knows that music dominates the proceedings.
Few unfortunately realize why, for it is the music that is the source of the miraculous power, not the Holy Spirit.
If the second music world were to advertise their concerts as worship services instead of concerts, people would be insulted.
Many would rightly ask the question, worshiping who?
True biblical worship of course is devotion to God in all things.
Charismatic worship is merely the worship of worship.
To understand the effects of music more clearly, I spoke to two top professional musicians.
Wurzel was lead guitarist with heavy metal group Motorhead, who were for 12 years chart toppers across the world.
For many years, as one of the leading rock bands, Motorhead enjoyed a string of successes,
including world tours, music videos and television appearances.
Here they are in the music video for the occult horror film Hellraiser.
I also spoke to Rudy Dobson, a top session keyboard player, who has performed with some of the biggest bands and musical artists in the world,
including the Bangles, Magnum, Billy Joel, The Truth, Foreigner, Paul Simon, Nick Kershaw and the Bee Gees.
Now a believer himself, Rudy talked to me about the effects of music on an audience
and how through careful planning, musicians manipulate an audience by creating the right emotional atmosphere.
We talked about his transition from secular artist to Christian,
and how the techniques of the world music scene are now influencing the church by passing off emotional experiences as the anointing of God.
Being a session musician, you end up playing with loads of different types of bands, like reggae bands, rock bands, pop bands, classical bands, jazz bands.
As a session musician, as a keyboard player, you have to be able to cater for all types of every style of music,
because if you can't do that, then you're going to get no work, because people want a particular feel.
For instance, a particular album I did a few years ago, they wrote this particular type of track and they wanted to give it a jazz feel.
If I couldn't play jazz, they normally would have got a jazz musician in, so therefore I wouldn't have got paid and another person would have.
Different types of music will give different types of emotions.
For example, if you're in a stadium and you're playing a heavy rock track, 99.9% of the time people will be jumping up and down and clapping their hands.
If you're playing a more serious track that's atmospheric, you'll probably find that they're waving their arms in the air very slowly and so on, according to what type of track it is.
You'll also go to things like if you go to a classical concert, people will not be waving their arms up and down in the air, they'll just sit in there and listen to it in a different way.
I played for Motorhead for 12 years, professionally, and I went all over the world, well, I underwent six times with the band, so I went everywhere, almost everywhere.
I played lead guitar, in fact I made as much noise as I possibly could, but I did very well at that.
And before that I played probably for about 10 years, semi-professionally, in pubs and clubs, in smooth venues around the country, and struggled like everyone else.
For example, when we played all over the world, we could play in Japan, we could play in Germany, we could play in Czechoslovakia, we could play in Brazil.
Everybody in those countries all speak a different language, and the reaction that we got from that audience every time we played in all those countries was exactly the same, totally identical.
They look the same, they jump up and down the same way, they throw their arms up in the air the same way.
Nobody can speak the same language in all of those countries, but they all recognise the music, they all have that, they have an atmosphere about it that induces, if you like, that reaction from the audience.
Whether they're lyrics or not, it could just be the music or form, it doesn't matter whether you understand what's actually been sung, the style and the force that comes across you, that does it, that communicates completely.
You know, when I see a crowd at a Christian concert, and a crowd at a non-Christian concert, the reaction is pretty much the same.
They'll behave the same way, they'll stage dive the same way as they do at a Christian concert, the same as they would at a non-Christian concert.
I believe they behave exactly identical.
I think the crucial thing about music is not whether the effect it has is natural or unnatural, whether it's conscious or subconscious.
Now I sit here doing my paperwork and I usually find music helps me through it, it relaxes me, I get very fed up with the amount of administration I've got to do.
If I put on upbeat music, I tackle my work much more vigorously, I read faster, I think faster and I plough through it faster, I go home earlier.
If I'm laid back and I'm listening to Chopin, by the end of the afternoon I've only gone through half the tray.
Now I just haven't been aware of what's going on, but then I think, yes, well that's probably the music I've been listening to has had that effect.
So music clearly does affect us, the way we function, and just because it isn't a conscious thing, it doesn't mean to say that it's a supernatural business, I think these are natural phenomena.
It is easy to get a crowd into an auto-state of consciousness by the music you play and the particular types of music you play,
i.e. that when I've played with secular bands, professional secular bands, we have been told to put music in certain orders in order to get the audience to do certain things at certain times of the concert.
Like for instance, we have a very powerful track at the beginning to get people emotionally high so that they're geared up for the rest of the concert,
so that you can go through and bring the less powerful numbers through and then you bring them up to a high again.
It's like a heartbeat where it's like a little pulse. It goes down, it goes up, it goes down, it goes up, and at the end it goes straight to the top from the particular style of music you do, i.e. the drums in the tracks dominate the way you are.
If you have a soft drum part, then it's going to make people more relaxed, and if you have a heavy drum part, it's going to bring people up and you'll find that they jump about, wave the rums in the air, you know, do the whole bit,
and you'll find that the Christian Crusades are using particular songs in those crusades and you'll find they're always the same type of particular songs to get the people to do certain things.
And the certain words that are used in those songs also are auto-suggestions to what is going to come later on in that crusade, i.e. Come Holy Spirit, come is a particular track they use a lot in these crusades,
and it's all focusing on the Holy Spirit so people are expecting something to happen before it actually happens. It's all you put in their mind, in the back of their mind subconsciously.
So when they actually say the Holy Spirit has come and you're going to fall down and so on, people expect that's going to happen to them so they actually do what they think is going to happen.
People I think often don't realize that they can actually enter a hypnotic state without even realizing that that's happening to them.
And yes, it can be very dangerous, particularly if you don't know it.
So let us say even walking through a shopping mall when the music is playing in a very small way we are actually being slightly suggested to by the music.
How often have you found yourself walking in time with the music as you walk through a shopping mall?
Okay, it's a small thing, but it shows how easily we are suggestible to rhythms first of all, but then of course to suggestions that come along with the rhythms, the advertising techniques.
Just to add to that, in comedy programs there's a certain element of suggestibility going on in that often regular programs have a regular theme music which actually helps to snap people into a slightly suggestible state.
Ah, it's that program, the one I know, the one I like.
And one's frame of mind changes when the music starts simply because you're already pre-prepared to laugh, to be amused,
sometimes sad to shut off what one might call one's moral sense as well because some of the humor is, let's say, a bit iffy, more than that these days.
So even in the ordinary ways of the world we are suggestible and at times enter into a semi-hypnotic state without even realizing it's happened to us.
An example of this hypnotic technique at work in charismatic circles is primarily when it begins with worship.
Everything has to begin with worship.
Indeed the whole stage set up, the whole arrangement of churches actually is part and parcel of inducing an atmosphere of suggestibility leading to hypnosis.
Constant repetition of choruses, bands which have loud throbbing instruments, particularly bass guitars, drums.
Okay, in themselves, as of themselves, when used sparingly, there is no harm in them. But when used at the rate and power that are used in these meetings, people will become suggestible.
I mentioned earlier the fact that even ordinary comedy programs on television use music to snap people into a frame of mind.
Exactly the same thing is happening with these choruses which are repeated sometimes for half an hour on end.
People are simply by the very fact that they are expelling air at a great rate when they sing, they are actually moving into an altered state of consciousness.
That's why people feel good when they sing.
Oh, that was a wonderful time of worship.
What they are actually expressing is that certain chemical changes have actually taken place in their body as a result of their way they have been breathing out more than they have been breathing in, not taking enough oxygen.
So that's already made them susceptible.
And then comes the smooth swings in the way in which the music is produced.
The swings people up and down, so they begin to obey a rhythm of emotion which is actually being projected from the stage.
And that leads them into this state of mind. If they have already been there before, they will fall into it quicker as time goes on.
I have found through my study of ancient archaeology and history that there is a common denominator amongst many of the ancient civilizations.
They used music as a means of altering their consciousness to open the door to a spiritual dimension, whether it be through drums or chanting or through various musical instruments.
Using a certain note, repeating that note over and over again, they can open this door to a spiritual dimension.
It can also happen through the use of hallucinogenic drugs.
Another way is to use crystals as a means of opening the door to a higher level of consciousness.
So throughout history we've seen that this has happened.
And it's interesting that today in many churches, as part of what we call worship, there is an introduction of these same kinds of syllables or the same kind of music pattern which seems to bring people into this altered state.
Music is integral to causing people to go into an altered state of consciousness.
Normally the music is repetitive, it has a strong beat, it is normally very simple in terms of its lyrics and construction because that kind of repetitive music, and I believe by the way that the music that's most effective,
the beat and the harmonic is a function of a natural body function, your heartbeat or your respiration rate, and it brings you into that state of suggestibility.
As I said, when people attend one of these meetings, they're already in the first state of hypnosis.
Then the music enhances it, the lighting enhances it, the common purpose of all of the huge crowds enhance it further, and soon the people will do anything, and we've seen them do anything in the meetings.
When you go into a big Christian rally, a big Christian meeting, 10-15,000 people there, they're going absolutely berserk.
At the very start, as soon as the guy walks on the stage, they go ape, and it's exactly the same.
And a rock concert, it really is absolutely identical.
The lights go off, the lights go down, the crowd goes crazy, because they're in anticipation of what's going to happen.
And then we didn't, but most bands then put on an introduction tape, and it's all dark, and you just see the little, you know, there's a big build-up in atmosphere, big atmosphere, and then wallop!
Off it starts, under the lights, and everybody goes berserk.
And it's very much like that, and not quite as dynamic perhaps at a Christian rally, but it's very much in the same pattern, well, almost identical, almost identical pattern.
We use music to accompany all sorts of things. It accompanies us when we have our little meal in the restaurant, we've got this sweet music playing in the restaurant, you know, the background music, and it's all nonsense.
You're not really listening to the music, but it's just intuitive, it makes you have a nice evening.
You're not really aware of it, in fact it's quite an unconscious thing.
And it's quite clever the way Supermarket's dish out this ambient music, if you like, to make you, I don't know, I don't know what it makes you think of.
It doesn't make me think, oh, by the way, it's a margarine, it doesn't make me think things like that.
But it does put you in a relaxed state of mind, which is probably good to shop.
I don't actually know, but I know that it is played for that reason.
It's played in Supermarket, to take your mind off something rather, and to just let you get on and shop.
It's definitely a controllable factor, the music is a controllable factor, and that is why they put things in certain orders to control that audience,
with certain styles of music.
And you'll find that it's always the ballads that make them cry, you'll never get a rock track that makes them cry,
a rock track makes them high, a ballad track makes them more emotional state of mind.
It's a control of a language, a particular thing.
And what we need to ask ourselves is why is certain music, in certain styles, if it has no effect, why do they do a ballad,
in a certain style, why not make that ballad track a rock track, if it's going to be a neutral track?
Because the different styles of music generate a different type of emotion in that particular person.
You can control an audience to exactly how you want, and a particular example of that is that when I played with the Bee Gees,
it was a particular track called Words, every country we went to, every gig we did in those countries,
they all waved their arms in the air and they all cried on that particular song.
And they all were waving candles and yet people did not know what other people were doing in different countries,
yet they were all doing the same thing.
It should come as no surprise that Satan's deceptions should be perpetrated using music,
for he is described in Scripture as the anointed cherub, the one whose pipes and tarbrettes were created in him.
Surely, if there is any arena in which Satan could adequately function, it would be within the area of music.
We should therefore exercise caution where music and ministry cross paths.
As with all things, Scripture is our guide for faith, doctrine and conduct.
Nowhere in Scripture did Jesus and the Apostles use music at a healing rally.
In fact, music in the New Testament is hardly mentioned at all.
The truth is, without the music and the hype at Charismatic Crusades, little, if anything, would happen.
If these healers could function just as well in someone's front room with no hype,
with no raised expectations, with no loud music, they would presumably do it.
It must be cheaper to do something low-key rather than high-key.
As it is, they know that what they do works. They've learned over the years that what they do works with this given mixture.
It's got to be this type of music. It's got to be this length of duration.
It's got to be this type of building-up prayer that raises the expectation of the community.
Without the hype, they feel they're not empowered. And actually, they're not empowered without the hype.
You need the hype, but that's the nature of the power they've got.
It's very hard to imagine what would happen if we took out all worship, all music, all singing, all instruments.
But if we could envisage such phenomena within the Charismatic Church,
I don't know what would be left because it's such an essential ingredient to generate a mood, an atmosphere of expectation,
which is so often associated with times of ministry and the manifestations.
If you removed the vehicle through which these phenomena are generated, I suspect there would be much less in the way of manifestation.
I think it's very interesting today in churches that the prime way in which people think people can be brought to church
is by putting on a good show, make the music good, make the church building beautiful, make the car park accessible,
make it clear that we're such nice guys. They'll be warmly welcomed at the door.
Everything is put on to make people feel comfortable.
And then the Gospel is presented that God loves you, and all these lovely people do love you too,
and all the wonderful things that can come from this.
Now that bears no resemblance whatsoever to how the New Testament went about proclaiming the Gospel.
Paul didn't have a load of roadies that went with him, setting up the music band and setting up cameras
and doing all the kind of things which are absolute standard issue now at any of the big church services.
He didn't need PA systems, but what he did do was to preach the Gospel of repentance.
Read the Book of Acts again. Nowhere was music ever used, to my knowledge, at a Gospel event.
They didn't sing beforehand, and yet that seems to be almost essential.
Jesus certainly, to my knowledge, never used a music band at any point.
They did sing the Psalms, they did sing some hymns when it was appropriate according to the Jewish liturgy.
But no, Peter wasn't on bass guitar, we didn't have Judas playing drums, we didn't...
None of it. It's so, so different. And who are we kidding?
If we think we're nice guys and people will become Christians because we're nice guys,
I can tell you they're going to be building their life on sand.
I'm not a nice guy, neither is the next man in the pew to me.
We're all rotten sinners, saved by grace.
Unless God is drawing them by His Holy Spirit, and that will not happen unless the Word is clearly proclaimed,
we're wasting our time, we're just making clubs of nice people getting together. No Gospel.
World renowned illusionist and investigator of those with alleged supernatural abilities, Andre Cole,
states in his book, Mind Games, page 242, the following.
Many people are being misled by dynamic personalities who claim to have a gift from the Lord.
These preachers may have a gift, but it definitely is not the gift of healing.
They simply have learned, accidentally or intentionally, some good psychological principles and some theatrics.
We need to remember that fact when we next attend a healing service.
If God has healed you, rejoice and thank Him. Give Him glory for His miraculous power.
But don't attribute supernatural powers to someone using merely natural ability.
I said we start with you, but let's start with you. What do you want to share with us about?
Well, about 65 years ago, the Holy Spirit came into our Catholic home and baptized my mother in the Holy Ghost
when she never heard there was any such an experience.
She was baptized in the Holy Spirit praying Catholic prayers while she was in bed.
My father said, what's wrong? She said, I don't know. I just feel like I have to pray.
He said, well, pray. She went through the Our Father and the Hail Mary and the Apostle Creed.
Then she started all over again with the Our Father and the Hail Mary and the Apostle Creed.
She woke my father up again and said, what's wrong? She said, I don't know. I just have to pray.
He said, well, pray. For the third time he woke up. This time the bed was shaking.
He said, what's wrong? She said, I don't know. She said, I just have to pray.
He said, hey, somebody's in this room. He said, we better get out of bed and get on our knees.
So they got on their bed and my mother began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave her utterance. Praise God.
I want to say something before you say that. Listen to me carefully.
We are not interested whether this is the actual blood of Jesus or whether this is black currant juice.
Just talk a little bit about doctrine because man can be so silly. Not doctrine, tradition.
Man can be so silly. Oh, well, do you believe this is actually the blood of Jesus? That is irrelevant.
It is irrelevant whether this is actually the blood of Jesus or whether this is just black currant juice.
I just want to make this point.
What's relevant is that 2000 years ago, Jesus was nailed to a cross.
He was pierced in his side and blood came forth every drop of blood in his body.
The Charismatic Movement has always been the bridge to Rome.
They speak in tongues, so do we. Therefore, we're one in the Spirit.
Now, the first, the Charismatic Movement in the United States, Catholic Charismatic Movement, began in Duquesne University.
It moved to Notre Dame.
And I can tell you that one of the first utterances in tongues in Notre Dame was something like this.
That which Our Lady of Fatima has said shall surely come to pass.
Our Lady of Fatima is a demon, and I could document that.
What Our Lady of Fatima said is wrong. It's evil.
But we have big ecumenical gatherings of Charismatics,
where you have Catholics and so-called evangelicals and whatever, all intermingled.
And they'll overlook anything because we all speak in tongues.
So unfortunately, it has been a major bridge to Rome.
I'm sure the Lying Signs and Wonders Movement, as we refer to it today, is a pathway to ecumenism,
to bringing all churches and groups and denominations together,
irrespective of whether they hold to true biblical doctrine or not.
I don't think it's intentionally that, but I think that's the outcome.
For the simple reason that where there are signs and wonders,
it is assumed that we have the presence of the work of the Spirit of God.
And if we have the presence of the work of the Spirit of God, that's all that matters,
never mind our fundamental theological position.
And that is a quite contrary scripture position.
It begins, for most people, with a shared experience,
which is then given a superficial shared theological framework.
And here, as it were, the Roman Catholics and the evangelicals and Charismatics
are, as it were, building on a foundation of sand,
because the experience is where it begins and the interpretation is where it gets shared.
Interestingly, the phenomena, the signs and wonders and the peculiar way in which people behave,
is paralleled between, say, Medjugorje and these places there, and Toronto and the Charismatic ones.
The same kind of bizarre phenomena are going on.
And of course people think, well, it's the same thing.
It's another manifestation of God.
And so the idea comes across that the shrines where Mary is manifesting
is just another way in which God is moving His Church together.
This great theme of unity, which is the wonderful thing,
which covers over all the wrong teaching, which is being ignored and put to one side.
Shared common experience, a shared muddled theological understanding of that experience,
leading to a so-called doctrinal and theological unity.
More and more, the emphasis is on the experience and on the phenomena,
both the weeping statues and, for that matter, the bleeding, or not the weeping hands,
the oil on the hands, all these things that are being talked about, most of which are illusory,
are shared grounds for saying it must be the same God at work.
Well, I actually probably think it is, but it's not the God we know as revealed in Scripture.
Without a doubt, the signs and wonders movement is a deception of the enemy.
Because of it, doctrine is discarded and experience without truth is embraced.
The end product is a counterfeit Christianity, filling churches with false converts.
Many of the charismatic leaders have already taught that people can be saved
without the preaching of the Gospel.
Colin Dye in England and Rodney Howard Brown in America
are only two among many who have said this publicly.
Through the charismatic movement, the bridge to Rome is complete
and the work of the Reformation is turned on its head.
Through the Dark Ages, the Roman Catholic Church removed the Word of God so men could not be saved.
Once again, the Word of God is shadowed, this time by experiences
that replace the Word of God as our assurance of salvation.
The charismatic leaders of today are every bit as morally bankrupt as the priests of the Middle Ages.
Lies and half-truths are unfortunately their stock and trade.
The contributors to this program have tried again and again
to communicate to many of the leaders criticized in this video
in the hope that they would repent and turn away from these things.
In England, I have spoken to leading charismatic figure Colin Dye
several times about the many deceptions being perpetrated upon believers in the UK
by the likes of Maurice Rarello, Benny Hinn and Rodney Howard Brown.
Even after being shown clips of Benny Hinn lying blatantly, he still promotes his ministry.
Clips like these.
Are there places right now where you can sense it more than in other places?
Yes, absolutely. Africa is one.
I was in Ghana recently preaching one night.
And this man was put on the platform and he was dead.
The man was dead.
And it was a very scary thing because nobody told me he was dead.
So you didn't know he was dead?
I did not know he was dead.
Oh my, oh my. So what happened?
What happened is while I was ministering, you know, I was praying for the sick.
And I was looking back and forth saying, what's happening, what's happening?
And they were telling me, well, she was healed of this, she was healed of that.
Well, the reason I did not know he was dead because I thought maybe he had fainted.
Now I saw his body being picked up from hand to hand and they put him on the stage.
But the people knew he was dead because of what he was wearing.
Oh, and you had no idea?
No, I mean nobody told me that the dead were what they had on them.
And I remember him wearing like a very pale looking garment, you know, a very gray, pale looking thing.
And they put him down. I thought maybe he had fainted.
And then suddenly the crowd became very restless.
And I was praying, I remember praying with the lady with arthritis and I was asking her to move her arms up and down.
And suddenly the place went, the people went wild, almost out of control.
And I thought, well, it's only arthritis, you know, because after it was the lady's healing that got them all going.
But what I did not know is behind my back, the man was getting up and moving.
Oh my, oh my.
I was in Ghana just recently, we had half a million people show up and a man was raised from the dead on the platform.
That's a fact, people.
Do you literally believe that someone has been resurrected on the program?
Oh, John, I would not limit God.
God can't raise the dead. Absolutely.
I have not seen it.
In that one case, we did hear about it.
They brought a man and this man was put on the platform and he was dead.
The man was dead.
I have not seen it.
In that one case, we did hear about it.
They were taken away and she fought with that, she tried to call them for them to, for questions, the staff at Benihan.
You know the case of Joyce Vaughan, the Houston woman?
I'm sorry, no, tell them about it.
As you can see, Benihan lied about the so-called miracle and also of having any knowledge of Joyce Vaughan's death.
In reality, he spent over two hours discussing that same fatality with Ole Anthony some years before.
Sadly, these are not isolated incidents, as Benihan has fabricated many stories in his books about healings and about family details relating to his childhood.
The question everyone should be asking is when does he stop?
As you have seen, he is very calm when he does it.
Colin Dye seems to be following a similar path.
He freely admitted to me that Maurice Sorello's mail shots were not written by Sorello, even though every letter is written in the first person.
And Colin Dye himself deceptively and consciously fools his followers in promoting a book in his name that he did not even write.
Apart from some small sections which contain transcripts from his sermons, the rest is ghost written.
Clearly not by the Holy Ghost, who is the spirit of truth.
The only alternative I can only assume is money.
With the numerous signs and wonders of leaders I have seen investigated, money is normally the real mission.
So we decided to look at the various mail shots sent out by charismatic leaders to see the real message that they contain.
Take Benihan for example.
By looking at his partner letters, you can begin to see what is the thrust of his teaching.
In a given period, we looked at all the partner letters mailed and counted the number of times relevant Christian themes or words were used.
Like the name of Jesus for example.
The results were quite shocking.
Over several months, the name of Jesus was used ten times.
Repentance once, healing fifteen times and so on.
When it came to words like harvest, sow or seed, they were used thirty nine times.
Or finances, debt or material need, these were mentioned thirty six times.
Of course, no one would disagree with ministries raising money for legitimate needs.
So we asked a searching unbeliever to write to some of the well known charismatic ministries and inquire how to become a Christian.
Robert's Lairden, no reply.
John Avanzini ministries, no reply.
John Bevere ministries, no reply.
Trefalo Dollar ministries, no reply.
And then there are the ones that did respond, like Marilyn Hickey and Jesse Duplantis ministries.
Only Jesse Duplantis ministries sent a free video entitled, Why I Should Be Saved.
And that was devoid of any real gospel message at all.
But what is worse is what came with it and continued to come for months afterwards.
Product catalogues, covenant partner forms and appeals for money.
Marilyn Hickey ministries didn't even send the free video, just the appeals for funds.
In fact, only one ministry that we wrote to, a UK ministry, took any time to present the gospel or to recommend a local church.
Their priorities are clear.
They are businesses, not gospel missions who care about lost souls.
And do you know, Rory, recently there was a series of criticisms coming through in various ministries.
And I was praying about it and asking the Lord, why is this happening?
And what did He want us to do about it?
Well, there's one thing, it's not very complimentary, but Jesus said, here's how you handle a Pharisee.
He says, leave them alone, leave them alone.
Don't waste time arguing and debating in fruitless ways.
That's the first thing.
Yes, carry on, please.
And then something else.
You know, this kind of persecution is necessary.
I'm not excusing it.
I'm not excusing it.
I'm not saying it's right.
But in many ways, it's necessary because it authenticates the anointing.
See, judging one another is a luxury that you cannot afford.
Let me say that again.
Judging one another is a luxury that you cannot afford.
Why not?
Because Satan will see to it that you get what's coming to you.
By now, you're probably wondering, what do I do next?
Before I close, let's hear some last words from our speakers.
I don't limit God.
I'm not limiting God at all.
But I can discern what men are doing in His name that is not of God.
Now, some of them will threaten you.
Benny Hinn has done it on TBN.
Paul Crouch has threatened.
I watched it live once when he said, you heretic hunters, you can go to hell.
If God doesn't shoot you first, I will.
We are told to judge.
Let the first speak and let the others judge.
The Bible talks about false doctrine.
How am I going to know that it's false doctrine?
In the last, it talks about apostasy.
I must be able to judge.
I must be able to decide what is of God and what is not of God.
Now, they will use this specious argument, a misquote from the Old Testament,
touch not the Lord's anointed.
Well, where does that come from?
David.
Saul was in his hands.
They were hiding in the cave of Adom.
That wasn't the cave of Adom.
David and his men were hiding in a cave as they were being pursued by Saul.
Saul comes in and takes a nap.
David's men say, you got him, kill him.
David said, I will not lift up my hand upon the Lord's anointed.
On another occasion, a deep sleep from the Lord came upon Saul and his men.
David and one of his nephews went in among the hosts and he said, I'll kill him.
David said, I will not lift up my hand upon the Lord's anointed.
I won't touch the Lord's anointed.
But on that occasion, they took his spear and they took his canteen.
When they got a safe distance away across the ravine up on a cliff overlooking it,
David yells down.
He rebukes Saul for what he's doing.
He will not touch the Lord's anointed.
It means you don't kill him.
You don't harm him.
But it doesn't mean you don't question what someone is teaching.
The Bereans were commended for questioning what Paul taught.
They searched the scriptures to see whether what Paul taught was right.
And the whole idea is that if what he taught was not according to the Bible,
they would disagree with him on that basis.
So you are the very anointed that David would not harm, would not touch,
meaning to harm him, he rebuked him publicly before Saul's men and before David's men.
The book of Revelation says that they say they are of the church but are not.
I mean there are a million examples where you're not safe just because Jesus' name is preached.
You've got to test what's being said by the Word.
You've got to test what's being said by the component of eternity.
The Word for truth, every other language besides one, can only define truth by what it isn't, except Hebrew.
Hebrew defines truth by, truth is that which is eternal.
And that's what all of us are, all men are truth seekers.
Normally, and at your teenage years, is when you're the biggest truth seeker.
So that's what everybody objects to.
We encourage it, we try to make people test and challenge it, so they find out that which is eternal.
They're convinced that what they believe in is true.
And so it's very difficult to come before these people and say what you believe is wrong,
even though you present biblical reasons that what they believe is not biblically based.
They say, well not everything that God does is in the Bible.
You can't put God in a box.
One man said that if everything that happened on the day of Pentecost was written in the book of Acts,
you would need a wheelbarrow to carry the book of Acts around.
But that's building a theology based on what the Bible does not say.
We are to build our theology, our doctrines on what the Bible does say.
And that's why people get off into these deceptions,
is because they base their theology on experiences, but not on the Word of God.
I think that the crucial issue is what is the nature of our mandate.
Is our mandate to preach the Gospel or to preach and to heal?
If our mandate from the Gospels is to preach the Gospel, and we then add something onto that,
whether it is church attendance, the sacraments, any ritual of any sort, or healing,
then we are clearly adding to the Gospel that we were given, and therefore it is another Gospel.
And whereas the Reformation had to wrestle with works being added on,
and whether you are saved just by faith and trusting in Christ, so today it's faith plus healing.
The consequence of going into an altered state of consciousness and having suggestions made to you
and you becoming hypnotized is that you do have a mind-changing experience.
The common word for this is a paradigm shift.
Go to the drug culture of the 60s and you will find that's exactly what they were talking about, mind-bending drugs.
Now, some of them discovered that you can have mind-bending experiences under meditation, TM, all these kinds of things.
Bent people's minds permanently in some instances.
And that's what we are seeing happening. People's minds are being bent by the effect of their experience.
So the experience rules, the suggestions made while they were under that experience are the rules that guide them.
Scripture is now simply a lip service statement.
Oh yes, well we can find a verse about it somewhere, usually totally out of context.
That's what's happening to people. That is why, unless they repent of the experience,
they are not going to be able to hear the Word of God. And there is the catch-22 for so many.
They cling to the experience as proof to them that God has His favor on them,
instead of clinging to Scripture where we have the eternal promises of God which cannot be changed.
If I had one thing to say to the charismatic world and I had the opportunity to say it,
I think it would be to say, focus on Jesus, not manifestations of the Spirit, focus on Jesus Christ and salvation through Him.
And read your Bibles and use your brains and question everything else.
Perhaps the only solution to the apostasy, if that's what it is, the gullibility certainly of so many Christians today,
is that those who stand apart from so much that is represented by modern carismata,
and there are good Pentecostal people who would stand apart from a lot of the peripheral things today,
the only solution is first for Christians to be living such quality lives that the attractiveness of their lives
will make people realize there is something better than the hype I've been led to believe is all important.
And the second thing is that those in positions of teaching and preaching must maintain a clear Biblical standard,
testing everything by Scripture, but with a life and our vitality that is in itself attractive.
The church in the 60s betrayed itself by allowing hordes of people to go into the charismatic movement
because frankly they themselves were so dull and boring,
and we have to show that there is a better alternative because there is a better alternative to hype and pretend.
Our desire in making this video is to reach the many sincere people who are being lied to and deceived
by the kind of ministries we have highlighted in this program.
Jesus said there will be many people who will cry Lord, Lord on the day of judgment,
and that these will be people who genuinely believe that they were saved.
We do not want anybody watching this program to be one of those.
Many people who were formerly charismatics later discovered that they were not born again
after examining their teachings and experiences by the Word of God.
We are exhausted in Scripture to see whether we really are in the faith.
To have this assurance we must have come to Christ by the Biblical route of repentance and faith,
which can only come by the preaching and teaching of His Word,
which is actually interpreted and faithfully taught.
Out of the many people who will see this video,
there will be some who will begin to walk with God in a new way,
not by sight, looking for signs and experiences,
but by faith in the Word of God that is sure.
The first thing you must now do is get away from anything to do with these deceptions
and study the Word of God for yourself.
You must pray and ask God in His time to put you in contact with sound Christian friends,
where you can truly grow into the image of Christ and experience genuine Christian fellowship.
If you have any concerns, please feel free to contact one of the speakers in this program,
who will be more than happy to help you find the right road.
And once again, thank you for watching.
Too many Christians have died believing the errors of the Signs and Wonders movement.
These are some of them.
Joyce Vaughan
Natalia Barnett
Yvonne Reynolds
Laura Twilley
Helena Riley
Natalia Barnett
Helena Riley
Natalia Barnett
Yvonne Reynolds
Natalia Barnett
Yvonne Reynolds
Natalia Barnett
Yvonne Reynolds
Natalia Barnett
Thank you for watching!