Good evening, I'm Hugh Downs.
Barbara is on vacation, and this is 2020.
From ABC News, around the world, and into your home,
the stories that touch your life with Hugh Downs
and Barbara Walters.
This is 2020.
Tonight, don't even think about buying a house until you see our report.
It may look like the home of your dreams, but will your dream fall apart?
I got a nightmare.
We found case after case of buyers ripped off, their hard-earned money buying nothing but trouble.
Rotten wood, dangerous cracks, and water, water everywhere.
Watch out for building inspectors who look the other way,
and real estate companies who don't tell you everything.
You knew about the material defects on this property, and you didn't tell them.
Arnold Diaz with an expose you can't afford to miss.
Homebuyer, beware.
And one of the greatest joys in life, grandchildren.
Old people have three concerns.
They're Medicare, they're Social Security, and that line of pictures of grandkids.
But what happens when that special bond is broken, when parents tell the grandparents stay away?
They don't seem like grandparents anymore.
Now grandparents are joining forces, fighting for the right to see their grandchildren.
When they can't see the grandchildren anymore, and they're suffering, they've got to do something.
Should there be a law?
Lynn Schurr with the rallying cry of heartbroken grandparents.
Don't take our grandkids away.
Plus, the fight against body fat.
My waist is large, my hips, my legs.
If exercise and diet don't slim you down, would you try this?
The latest incredible technique, turning your fat into liquid so it can be drained away,
changing the image you see in the mirror.
It amazes me, it just amazes me.
Dr. Timothy Johnson with an exciting new way to have the shape you want.
Melting down the fat.
Those stories tonight, February 28, 1997, after this brief message.
These are beautiful shades of white for your walls, not for your teeth.
Introducing new Colgate Whitening Toothpaste with Baking Soda and Peroxide.
Because no matter how great your smile is, it can always be whiter.
New Colgate Whitening.
For Carnival, the Olive Garden presents an unexpected surprise.
New stuffed chicken carnival just $8.95.
Seven luscious cheeses stuffed between two grilled chicken breasts
with fettuccine alla marinara and unlimited salad and breadsticks.
All just $8.95 at the Olive Garden.
What happens when you don't just make something?
You invent something.
The Chrysler Cirrus, Concorde and LHS.
Cab forward design.
Speed sensitive steering.
Driver adaptive transmission.
Four wheel independent suspension.
The Chrysler Cirrus, Concorde and LHS.
The difference between just making something and inventing something.
What's new in your world?
Tonight we turn the spotlight on one of the biggest investments you'll ever make.
Buying a home.
Don't do it until you see what our extensive six month investigation uncovered.
Most people put in years of hard work and scrimping
before their dream of owning a home comes true.
But that dream can fall apart if you fall for one of the hidden traps
in the housing market.
Shoddy builders, shady inspectors and real estate companies
that don't tell you everything.
Arnold Diaz found it all.
Before you put your money down,
you can learn from home buyers who made expensive mistakes.
Imagine waking up to the sound of your dream home collapsing all around you.
Here it goes.
I went immediately up and got James and the baby and got them in the car
and then I ran around and tried to put some clothes in a suitcase
and then we got out as fast as we could.
These half million dollar homes in Kansas City were built on soil
so loosely packed that it shifted after heavy rains and the foundations gave way.
The sad fact is many people end up buying defective homes.
While your house may not literally collapse,
you could find yourself trapped in a financial nightmare.
How does it happen?
Well our investigation found what you might think are safeguards
in the system can turn out to be no protection at all.
People should understand that there are builders that are talented craftsmen
who create wonderful homes and they care about their customers.
And then there are builders that are psychopaths with a tool belt.
Allen and Denise Fields, authors of Your New House,
say a bad builder is sometimes hard to spot.
They don't drive up in the truck that says, you know, we screw you builders.
That's why Kansas City resident Holly Berkin felt confident knowing her builder
was a member of the highly publicized Certified Master Builder program.
Your new home may be the most important investment you will ever make
and that's why your home plan should include a certified master builder.
Just ask.
Are you a certified master builder?
I guess what we had expected is that the builders would have to meet
very strict guidelines and that, you know,
that you would be guaranteed a professional job.
The CMB was founded in 1992 by the Local Home Builders Association.
Its original brochures promised that members had been reviewed by a special committee
at an extensive credit check and provided a list of customer references.
But nobody was told that those stringent requirements were waived
for the first 300 Builders Association members who joined,
including Mark Jancic, Holly Berkin's builder.
The CMB declined our request for an on-camera interview,
citing litigation, but Executive Vice President Tim Underwood
offered this explanation in a 1993 interview.
There just wasn't any way with 300 and some builders coming in initially
that we could do the type of work that we are doing now in screening.
The Berkins say their master builder sold them a home in which the foundation wall
is literally pulling away from the living room floor.
In another area, the floor is riddled with cracks
and outside this wall split from top to bottom.
The Berkins say they didn't know the home had not even been approved by the city,
which won't issue a certificate of occupancy, a CFO,
calling the home potentially unsafe.
The homeowner is then on the hook because you own it now.
The builder has taken his money and gone.
He could sell you the house without a CFO.
Yes, and there's no law in many states that prevents that, amazingly enough.
The cost to repair the problems, $77,000, according to the Berkins experts.
We don't have any money left and as a parent I'd like to be able to provide a safe home for my child.
The Berkins say they have no choice but to stay in the house and sue the builder.
The city has already found Mark Jancic violated the building code.
He was fined a total of $1,000, which he's appealing.
Jancic says the Berkins lawsuit is the only one he's had in over 10 years as a builder.
He blames their problems on subcontractors and says he's recently offered to buy the house back.
The CMB says 98% of its customers are happy and that its ongoing review process is effective.
Who chooses who is a master builder? Is it another builder?
The field say in general it's up to you to check out your builder.
Speak to others they've built for. Look at building department records and inquire about complaints or lawsuits.
We found that the building industry is very bad at policing itself.
That the efforts of home builders to create master builder programs are nothing more than just a public relations ploy.
Even if you're stuck with a builder doing a bad job, in theory you should be protected by the local building inspector.
His job is to make sure the construction complies with the building code.
But we found sometimes the local inspectors get a little too chummy with the builders.
Just outside Atlanta in Noonan, Georgia, which calls itself the city of homes, Benny Carroll had a good thing going.
He was the chief building inspector for the county and he was collecting money working on the side for Dennis McDowell, one of the area's biggest developers.
McDowell's company built Peach Tree Landing and Benny Carroll signed off on many of the homes that are now experiencing numerous problems.
What did I get from the county inspector? I got a nightmare.
Homeowners including Laura Kling and Brynn Longnecker won a lawsuit charging that Inspector Carroll would approve inspections without leaving his truck, what are known as drive-by inspections.
They complain of faulty roofs, gutters that don't work, wood that's rotting on the outside of the house and the inside.
Then there's the septic problem.
If I drop this stick into this hole, you'll hear it hitting the water.
Residents say the ground is naturally wet, in many cases too wet to absorb the septic waste.
The entire backyard underneath the surface is a bowl of sewage.
Why was the developer allowed to build homes on such wet soil?
Because he provided the county with soil test results indicating there'd be no problem.
Who performed those tests? In some cases it was county inspector Benny Carroll who was moonlighting on the developer's payroll, collecting more than $5,000 in checks signed by McDowell and other area builders.
They should have fired him, plain and simple, no question. He should have been fired.
The county found Carroll's moonlighting was a conflict of interest and suspended him for two weeks.
However, a jury decided he and McDowell and two other builders committed fraud and must pay the homeowners $81,000.
Okay, so you can't count on your builder or county inspector to always do the right thing.
That's why buyers are advised to hire their own home inspector.
So here we are, 2020 home inspections, open for business.
Do I know anything about inspecting a home? Absolutely not. But I don't have to.
In most states, anyone can call themselves a home inspector.
Here's an example of how that can hurt a home buyer.
Richard Romano admits he knew next to nothing about the job when he went to work for Home Data Inspection Systems in New Jersey.
The company called itself the most trusted name in home inspections, claiming its inspectors received nine months training.
But Romano says after only a few weeks training, his boss, Richard Colasano, sent him out alone to do inspections, including this home, Pam Cantor, who was thinking of buying.
How did you find this home inspector? The real estate agent recommended him.
Be careful. Be wary. Because a traditional real estate agent often tends to recommend the inspector who won't raise any problems with the deal.
Aside from uneven steps, there were no major problems raised in Richard Romano's inspection report on the 50-year-old home.
So, feeling secure, Pam bought the home for $270,000. It was only after she moved in that she says she discovered the many problems.
What's wrong down here? You can actually put your hand in here.
This crack in the foundation wall goes all the way through to the outside.
There's rotting wood underneath the bathroom floor and puddles of water in the basement.
We brought in our own expert, home inspection engineer Warren Kroniker. He immediately spotted many things he says Romano missed.
The plumbing is badly corroded and needs to be replaced. So does the roof. And the garage is ready to collapse.
The estimated repair cost a minimum of $50,000, according to Kroniker.
The problems that are here in this house, had the inspector told me even a tiny little piece of it, I would have backed out of this house and gone looking for another one.
Although Home Data denies any wrongdoing, Pam Cantor and 20 other homeowners have filed lawsuits against the inspection company.
They may never collect, though, because Home Data has declared bankruptcy.
But we've learned Richard Colosano is still in the home inspection business. He simply moved down the street and opened up using a new name, but the same phone number.
You have reached home analysis and environmental systems.
How can you avoid allegedly incompetent inspectors? Experts say.
Look for a member of the American Society of Home Inspectors, or even better, a home inspection engineer like Kroniker, who is licensed.
And remember the field's advice. If your real estate company says, have I got an inspector for you, just say no thanks.
We want to hire the inspector who the real estate agent hates to see driving up. I mean, they just, they cower. They go, oh my God, it's not that guy.
Because they know that guy is the most thorough, I want the most obnoxious person that they, that you can find.
But wait, can't you rely on your real estate company to tell you if there are known problems with the house you're thinking of buying? Not necessarily.
And as you're about to see, that's a lesson some homeowners have learned the hard way.
Well, whom to trust. That's an essential consideration when your money, and perhaps your life savings, is riding on the answer.
Is the real estate agent your ally? You'll hear stories that will open your eyes when Arnold continues.
And later, the Fat Buster, a dazzling new breakthrough in the fight against fat. Stay with us.
Your All-Stars. Performing All-Star Feats. They're the reason we make Ford Windstar with over 40 standard safety features.
In fact, Windstar is the only minivan to earn five stars. The highest possible rating in government crash tests.
A pretty spectacular feat in itself. Don't your All-Stars deserve Ford Windstar?
Created for the most important people in the world.
In business, as in life, the problems that can't be ignored are the ones that get attention.
But at Ernst & Young, we'd like to remind you that there's also a lot to be said for taking a close look at areas that seem to be functioning just fine.
Ernst & Young. There isn't a business we can't improve.
It was a fantasy come true. You should see all the great stuff on sale.
There's a big craftsman tool sale at Sears.
I got this 118-piece mechanics tool set and this $30 craftsman toolbox was free.
I married Bob Vila.
Sears is showing off the latest craftsman tools.
How about showing off by helping me put together the swing set?
The semiannual craftsman tool sale at Sears. Everything you need to make anything possible.
We take different steps. We have our own rules.
We break our own rules.
Different things are important to us.
Our smiles are different. We have different tastes.
We sing our own songs. We keep different secrets.
Different routines.
Some of us like things sweet.
Each of us has a different talent.
Our ideas of fun are different.
We all have different memories.
We may be different, but we're all equal.
We're all equal.
We may be different, but we're all equal.
At the Post Cereal Company, we want everyone to have a good breakfast at a fair price.
But there's more to it than that.
We have kids.
We have jobs.
We know what mornings are really like.
So at Post, we don't just make alphabets, pebbles, and honeycomb.
We also bring them home.
Toast. Breakfast made right.
We believe that the worst crime of the century could never happen again.
But history is about to repeat itself.
Seek help!
From the bestseller by Robert Ludlum comes the movie event of March.
No!
The Apocalypse Watch. Sunday on ABC.
The school bullies beat me up and said I look like a big toe with glasses.
And the worst part was they were all girls.
Thank you, Arsenio. And thank you, America.
See you, and then we go to commercial, bing, bang, boom, we're out.
Drew, I'm not doing a talk show anymore. I'm doing a sitcom.
Oh. Hey, anybody got Barbara Walters' number?
Arsenio after Drew, ABC, Wednesday.
Well, you've seen the havoc that sloppy builders and unscrupulous building inspectors can wreak.
Once the deal is done, homeowners have to live with problems that they never dreamed of
and without the cash to solve them.
So how do you protect yourself from buying a lemon?
Is there anyone you can trust?
Arnold Diaz continues with crucial information about real estate companies.
Whose side are they on anyway?
When Tom and Virginia Russell bought their New Jersey home,
they say the real estate agency had information they weren't told about.
Questions had been raised about the safety and structure of the home.
We have definite proof that Weickert had information on the property
that would have severely impacted our decision to buy it.
The house was listed by Weickert, the largest independent realtor in the country.
Weickert, it turns out, had this inspection report,
which, among other things, documented that continual movement in the foundation has occurred.
The Russles were never told about this report, but after moving in, they say,
the problem soon became apparent.
Now as you come to the back of the house, you can see along the back foundation wall
where the land has actually eroded and pulled away and several sinkholes have developed.
When we purchased the house, it came off of the wall level
and there was a nice border with woodchip landscaping in along the house.
In addition, the seller even directed Weickert in writing to disclose the water problem in back.
The Russles say that was never done by Weickert,
and what was a puddle when they were shown the home is now a backyard almost totally underwater.
Weickert disputes the inspection report and says the structure is not deficient,
but an appraiser the Russles recently hired says the home for which they paid $210,000 now has a resale value of zero.
We just could not believe that all of the money we've saved was now in a house that was sinking.
Right now we're spending our college, our children's college funds in supporting this effort to remedy some of these problems.
Everything on the surface...
David and Wendy Zimmer are also stuck living in a white elephant,
a home for which they paid $500,000 but which is now valued at little more than half that.
The Zimmer's like the Russles assume that Weickert realtors would tell them all it knew about the home.
One of the big mistakes that people make is they often trust the real estate agent because they drive you around,
they show you houses, they become your best friend.
You don't realize that wait a minute, this person is really negotiating on somebody else's behalf.
It's true, the real estate agent is usually working for the seller.
Still in most states they're required by law to inform buyers of any known problems, but that doesn't always happen.
We thought she would do what a decent responsible professional would do and that is disclose things like there's a major lawsuit in your development.
Do you know that my company is a defendant in a consumer fraud action with houses down the street?
Weickert claims the Zimmer's agent did not know that her own company was being sued by four homeowners in the same neighborhood.
People whose houses have so many construction defects, the tax assessor now values these two homes excluding the property.
At only $100, these homeowners say they were misled by Weickert's ads which claimed the builder, Alan Rumburg, had 10 years experience.
Weickert's agents, one of whom happened to be Rumburg's wife, showed them pictures of some of the 100 homes he'd supposedly built.
The problem is none of it was true.
Ron Moss, the general counsel for Weickert realtors, says don't blame us, we didn't know the builder was lying.
So as you're portraying this case, the builder can lie to the real estate company, the real estate company can pass along that lie to the buyer,
but you're not responsible for passing along false information or checking it out.
If we had reason to disbelieve the builder, we would have an obligation to check it out.
But nothing this builder told us was any cause for alarm.
But five years later, Weickert knew that the house its agent was showing Wendy and David had been part of the original lawsuits.
In fact, Weickert settled that lawsuit after its own experts confirmed the home had numerous construction problems.
You yourself had an inspection report detailing $80,000 plus of repairs that needed to be done in that home,
and you don't pass that on to your real estate agents who are selling the home?
Unfortunately, that information was not available in the local office.
The home had been sold to another builder who did not fix all the problems.
It sat unoccupied for four years, yet Weickert still listed it as new.
We took new to mean new, that's it, new.
By their definition, you could be looking at a home, they could call it new if nobody lived in it, if it had been sitting there for a hundred years.
They had information and they didn't disclose it to us.
Your disclosure form says, we must inform you of any known material defects or conditions of a property which may affect the value of the property.
Well, you knew about the material defects on this property and you didn't tell them.
Well, when you say you knew, Weickert knew.
Weickert, some people in Weickert knew, okay, and yes, we would hopefully not ever get in this situation again and the information would be passed on.
When we visited Wendy and David, they felt there was no end in sight to their nearly two-year-old lawsuit against Weickert.
The neighbors' lawsuits, which Weickert lost, are going into their ninth year while the realtor appeals the finding of consumer fraud.
But during our interview with Moss, he threw in the towel on the Zimmer's case.
Today, our attorneys are communicating with their attorneys and offer to purchase the house back from them.
Oh, you are?
We are.
But this hasn't happened up till now.
That's right. It hasn't happened.
Does it have anything to do with our story?
No, not really because this is a –
That's coincidence.
It's a good coincidence, but it's a process that we go through.
Weickert claims very few clients are dissatisfied, but Allen and Denise Fields' caution never give a traditional real estate agent any information you don't want the seller to know.
They're bound by law to get the very best price for them as well as disclose any other information about you.
I mean, if I tell them how much money I make or how much I have to put down on a house, they have to go back and tell the seller that?
That's correct.
Yeah, they're bound to do that.
As we've shown you, whether it's master builders who don't always live up to their name, county officials on builders' payrolls, allegedly incompetent private inspectors or real estate agencies that don't disclose all they know,
it's clear the homebuyers' safety net is full of gaping holes and falling through can spell disaster.
This is usually people's life investment.
If you buy a defective new home, you could be trapped there.
It could become a prison because you can never sell the house because it's so full of defects.
You owe much more on it than it's worth, and then it becomes a prison.
What happened to Weickert's offer to buy back the Zimmer's home, Martin?
The Zimmer's have agreed to take it, and just yesterday Weickert told us that it had agreed with the Russells to buy back their house.
They're the people with all the water in the back.
You know, the Fields and some other experts say people looking for a home should consider a buyer's broker.
They work only for home buyers.
You sign an agreement, they negotiate on your behalf with the seller's broker, and they don't disclose confidential information.
That's an interesting idea.
I recently have dealt with realtors and inspectors and found them to be quite trustworthy.
Are there many out there that aren't?
No. The vast majority of people in the home buying and building industry are honest and competent.
However, hey, this is the largest purchase most people ever make.
You've got to be prepared just in case you run into a bad apple.
There's lots of books in the library, information on the Internet.
Study up.
Good advice and thank you.
Okay.
Well, next, grandparents fighting for what they treasure most, with their grandchildren.
What happens when that special bond is severed by a family feud?
Lynn Schurr with a story that will touch the heart of every generation.
And after that, watch the fat melt away, an exciting new advance in the Battle of the Bulge.
That and more are coming up.
Loser buys.
Ow.
Ah.
You okay?
Your backhand was a little...
Ah, it's his elbow.
I have Advil right here.
I tried this.
A leave?
Mm-hmm.
Did you see the dosing restrictions for people over 65?
Uh-oh.
You can't take more for hours, even if your arthritis pain comes back.
It's back.
Now I know why my doctor recommends Advil.
Next time, when you'll be buying lunch.
You're on.
Nothing is proven to work better or last longer than Advil.
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Instead of always being one thing or the other,
can something be one thing and another?
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What's new in your world?
Every small business comes with uncertainties.
At The Hartford, we help you take them on
with customized business plans and a range of financial products
designed to help you take risks, not just protect you from them.
Good evening, I'm Mark Bailey.
And I'm Jennifer Ryan.
Coming up on News 15 at 10, police swarm one Valley neighborhood
in a sweep of arrests for what they say was a gang-related rape of a young teen.
And this was the scene on the streets of LA today,
a violent shootout where the suspects wielded automatic weapons.
Tonight, our News 15 crews go on the street with Phoenix police
to see just what they face and to ask how they're going to handle
that sophisticated firepower the criminals are now carrying.
Macy's Super Saturday
Tomorrow, 9 a.m. to 9 p.m.
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The school world and the business world can seem worlds apart.
But here in the Valley, more students are looking at brighter futures,
thanks in part to programs where their teachers work alongside Motorola volunteers.
Teachers and students learn Motorola's proven approaches to problem-solving,
strategic planning and teamwork.
These skills help students bridge the gap between the school world
and the world they're about to face.
At Cellular One, investing in the community is part of our business.
Thank you.
You are to develop...
2020 continues. Once again, Hugh Downs.
Imagine a relationship with no strings attached,
where you're loved as you are and with nothing being required of you but to give love back.
That is the unique relationship that can exist between grandparent and grandchild.
So what happens if that bond is broken?
If angry parents tell grandparents, stay away from the kids,
is that the end of the story?
Well, not for the grandparents you're about to meet.
As Lynn Sher discovered, there are some things grandparents are willing to fight for,
and seeing their grandchildren is number one on the list.
The sun won't rise for another few hours here in Statesville, North Carolina,
but Louise McIntyre is rallying her troops, a bus full of doting grandparents.
Louise Carter?
Yes, ma'am.
Cash?
You think you love your children, but until you hold a grandchild,
there's no resemblance to it.
Rex?
Oh, he's here.
You have children to bring life into the world,
and of course when they have children, that's even that much more joy.
Grandchildren bring joy.
Old people have three concerns.
They're Medicare, they're Social Security, and that line of pictures of grandkids that they put on their mother.
That's the way it's supposed to be.
But for this army of grandparents, that loving tie has been wrenched away.
They are not permitted to see their grandchildren.
Tell me what it's like not to see your grandchildren, Louise.
It's hell.
It's a blank that can't be filled any other way.
Why do you miss them so much?
It's an extenuation of yourself.
Louise McIntyre and her busload of North Carolinians are not unique.
Across the nation, tens of thousands of grandparents are barred from visiting or telephoning,
or in some cases, ever contacting their children's children.
That's why this group is going to the state capitol in Raleigh to lobby for a law protecting grandparents' rights.
We got about 5,000 petitions.
This will be great.
For Louise, the project has become painfully personal.
Her son, Loring, who with his wife, Catherine, has forbidden her to see his two young daughters,
is also headed for Raleigh to oppose his mother.
It's just tragic.
We both ask, why? Why? What have we done that caused this?
The answer isn't clear.
Eleven years ago, all three generations of McIntyre seemed happy together.
Louise and Victor McIntyre became grandparents when Loring's wife, Catherine, gave birth to a daughter, Megan,
then a second daughter, Rachel.
These little girls were my joy. It was like I'd been given this blessing.
They had such a good time here. They had their playhouse.
We had an Indian camp made over here in these pine trees.
You want to talk to Granddaddy? Talk to Granddaddy.
I feel it is the purest love bond.
Say hey.
Because there's no conditions attached to it.
Dr. Arthur Kornheber is a psychiatrist who's been studying the relationship between grandparents and their grandchildren for 25 years.
Grandchildren do not see love, pure love, in anyone else's eyes like they do in their grandparents,
no matter how wonderful and loving the parents are.
What's that, Rachel?
But just after Christmas 1991, when Megan was seven and Rachel four, McIntyre family tensions peaked,
and the connection between the generations was severed.
See you later.
That's Rachel. That's Rachel.
Now all Louise has left is her row of pictures.
Here's little Megan and Debbie for Rachel.
And the room the little girls used for sleepovers has become almost a shrine.
Filled with dolls and Christmas presents, Louise continues to buy year after year after year.
The playhouse that Megan and Rachel decorated during their final Christmas visit five years ago hasn't been touched since.
Their last tea party gathers dust.
I come out here lots and see it. Does it make you happy or sad to be here?
I'm happy.
Most of us can't begin to understand how the McIntyres got to this point.
For those of us lucky enough to have known and loved our grandparents, it's unthinkable to be kept away.
Why would any parent sacrifice such an important relationship, leaving the children caught in the middle?
Lauren McIntyre says it's all about control and that the problem began when he chose Katherine as his bride.
When we announced that we were getting married, the first words out of my mother's mouth were, oh no you're not.
I mean that was the very first words, so that I think was foretelling of things to come.
The girls are better than my mom.
The hostility was set aside when the girls came along, but reemerged as they grew up.
It was almost like Megan became her child. If we went there she wanted to take over Megan everything.
And if she came to our house, same thing, and it got to be they would come and next thing they'd say, well we're leaving, we're taking Megan with us.
The breaking point came when Lauren's brother Chris asked the girls to be in his upcoming wedding. Lauren refused.
I said that we would attend the wedding, but I did not want us to be in the wedding because of all the old wounds from when Katherine and I got married.
Louise wrote a letter begging Lauren to let the girls participate.
Then she suggested that Katherine had an emotional problem and that the couple should seek counseling.
Outraged, Lauren wrote back that Louise's letter caused serious damage in our relationship with you.
On the wedding day, Lauren and his family didn't even stay for the photo session.
When did you see the children next?
Rachel's birthday. We drove to Asheville, 115 miles. We were allowed 42 minutes with them.
What do you mean you were allowed 42 minutes?
Because they said they had a party and we've got to go, and we drove back 230 miles for 42 minutes.
Frustrated, Louise and Victor hired a lawyer and threatened to sue for the right to see their grandchildren more often.
There was no need to threaten. There was no need to try to force. That set things up for failure right there.
Mediation didn't work. When Victor and Louise did sue, Lauren and Katherine cut all connection between grandchildren and grandparents.
No communication, no presence, no cards, no phone calls.
Look here. Smile. Big.
The McIntires tried one more time at an amusement park.
What was it like?
No communication. Very strange. No communication.
And when Megan came over to me, she hugged my neck, and I whispered in her ear, and I said, remember we love you.
She said, I know it, Granddaddy.
She whispered it. That's the last time we've seen them.
Victor and Louise took their case to the North Carolina Supreme Court, but the judge ruled that they didn't even have the right to be heard under current state law.
What do you want to do?
I want to be with my family.
Megan is now 11, Rachel 8. These days they refer to their grandparents whom they haven't seen in three years as Victor and Louise.
It's just been a gradual thing. They don't seem like grandparents anymore.
I mean, grandparents would love us, and they wouldn't sue someone.
They said that our parents were stupid and crazy, and Megan lied all the time.
Louise's law spurred her to start a grandparents' rights group.
It organizes grandparents, like the group headed to Raleigh, who've been cut off and are seeking help, and it advises about the patchwork of legislation that now exists.
Some state laws grant visitation rights to grandparents displaced by their child's divorce or death.
Only a handful grant such rights when both parents remain together, and several of those laws have recently been overturned.
That's why this army is on the march.
Are we asking the law to say any grandparent can go to court and ask for visitation and let the judge decide?
If you find the McIntyre situation a sad one, you'll find Mildred Johnson shocking.
She stood by her then unmarried daughter the day she gave birth.
But today, the country road in Nebo, North Carolina that winds between her daughter's mobile home and Mildred's house might as well be a six-lane highway.
Mildred is no longer allowed any contact with Elizabeth, the granddaughter she nurtured day and night for six years.
It's no more than 50 yards away. Why don't you just walk over there and go see her?
Because they told me not to come on their property. And I'm afraid they'll have me locked up if I go across.
You think they would have you arrested?
I'm afraid they might.
Mildred blames her trouble on her daughter's new husband, who has two children of his own.
She might look pretty in purple, mightn't she?
Uh-huh.
With her own Down syndrome child living at home, Mildred says she couldn't handle babysitting the newly expanded family.
In retaliation, she says her daughter stopped her from seeing Elizabeth.
About a year ago, Mildred's only grandchild last crossed the narrow divide to deliver a letter.
Dear mamaw, I am mad at you. You made my mommy cry. I do not want to come to your house.
You are mean. I don't love you anymore. I hate you, Elizabeth.
Have you talked to her since then?
I've not spoken to my granddaughter. I've waved at her. You know, I see her get off the school bus.
And the reason I don't holler at her is because I'm afraid she'll get fussed at if she hollers back.
Have you tried doing that?
I've waved at her, and the only response I get is if no one's around, she'll put her alarm down to her side and she'll wave back.
Mildred has stored Elizabeth's toys neatly in the basement, carefully protected.
A card marking her seventh birthday sits on the shelf. The swing set in the yard is idle.
I mean, it's a constant day-to-day thing. And someone's asked, well, wouldn't it be better if they moved away?
I said, well, if they moved away, I wouldn't even get that glimpse of her.
So last fall, Mildred Johnson joined Louise McIntyre's crusade.
He's smiling at me.
The pain of these disruptions was palpable at the legislative hearings.
He's now seven years old, and I haven't seen him in six years. And I don't think that's right.
And we saw it even more starkly when Loring and Louise's paths finally crossed in the Raleigh committee room.
The son walked right by his mother without a glance.
That's what hurts. You don't unlove a kid. And I see him walk across my feet yesterday and not even acknowledge me. It tears you to pieces.
I don't want to be confronted with her. The hurt is so great that it's just best not to open up things.
Many grandparents ask me when and if they should go to court. And I always say, well, exhaust every other avenue first.
But when they can't see the grandchildren anymore and they're suffering, they've got to do something.
Do you think your grandchildren ever ask about you now?
I hope to God.
I'm sure they do. But we don't know.
Do you think they miss you?
Oh, I'm sure they miss me. They miss both of us.
But when we ask the girls if they miss their grandparents...
No.
Or if they love their grandparents...
Not anymore.
No.
Do you think it's possible you will never see those grandchildren again?
Very likely.
If by some chance they should see this program, what would you say to them?
We love them. We love the kids. We love the grandkids. And we'd like to see this thing quit.
Until it does, Megan and Rachel will continue to grow up a hundred miles away from their grandparents, out of reach and mostly out of sight.
Victor and Louise did see the girls a couple of months ago for the first time in more than three years.
Still got that same nose, hasn't she?
Only because a sympathetic friend videotaped their dance recital.
It's sad and complicated. But, Lynn, how can anybody be opposed to the idea, at least to let grandparents have their day in court?
Well, it does seem unthinkable to you and me and a lot of people, but what Loring and Katherine McIntyre told us was that they just don't want the government interfering in their right to control their nuclear family.
They say that someone has to be responsible for the children. And as long as they're doing it lawfully and that they're providing proper care for the children, no one should interfere.
What about divorce and how that impacts on grandparents' rights?
Divorce is certainly the factor in many of these cases, but in fact, many states in this country, most of them, do provide some recourse for grandparents to go to court.
But they have to go to court and there's no guarantee they're going to win that. So it's a very tough situation.
And still complicated.
Indeed.
Thank you, Lynn.
Well, next, the newest weapon in the never-ending fight against body fat, medicine's magic wand.
You'll be amazed at what doctors are doing now and our own Dr. Timothy Johnson has the fat buster that might soon be reshaping America.
After this.
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ABC News 2020 will continue in a moment.
ABC Late Night Tonight.
On Nightline, if beauty is only skin deep, how deep is our prejudice exposing America's dirty little secret?
And on P.I.
Can you be spiritual and run a casino?
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Prime time, ABC Wednesday.
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Well, scientists haven't yet come up with the perfect solution to eliminating body fat.
But you can't say that they're not trying.
Prepare yourself for the latest breakthrough in liposuction,
an amazing new technique that is exciting for doctors and easier and safer for patients.
Dr. Timothy Johnson will show you how it works and what it can do.
It's shaping up to be a powerful tool in the fight against fat.
I don't want to change my pants.
Kim Mark's byline appears on fashion articles in major magazines.
But when it comes to dressing herself, there's one overriding concern.
I don't want rolls of fat showing when I, you know, get dressed in the morning.
I have, like, basically the tire of a middle just all the way around.
And I have the power to have it changed, and I'm going to have it changed.
But you won't find 29-year-old Kim here.
Sweating it out for a fashionable figure is not her style.
So many people say, oh, well, why don't you diet? Why don't you exercise?
I have really good reason for not doing both of those things.
I don't want to. You know, been there, done that, move on.
And what she is moving on to is the newest surgical technique to remove fat.
It's called ultrasonic liposuction.
I think it's very exciting.
The fact that we can do greater quantities of fat removal safer with less blood loss is incredibly enticing and exciting.
The procedure is so new that Kim's plastic surgeon, Dr. John Sherman,
is unpacking his new equipment just two days before Kim is scheduled for her surgery.
The antipasides, the fat cells that are the lice...
And just two weeks before, Dr. Sherman attended a course like this
to learn about the new device for liposuction, a way to dissolve fat with sound waves.
The sound wave is then transmitted to the very end of the tip of the device.
Dr. Franklin Despaltro teaches some of the courses.
He demonstrated the new device for 2020 in his operating room using a sample of human fat.
As it's in contact with the fat cell, it sets the cell into motion.
The cell starts to vibrate at a very high frequency and it breaks up and liquefies the fat.
And we can remove the fat.
When liposuction was first introduced in the early 1980s,
it was a comparatively crude and sometimes dangerous procedure.
But with the introduction of a technique using local anesthesia and fluid underneath the skin,
liposuction became much safer and more precise.
In this still standard way of doing liposuction,
the doctor pushes and pulls a tube through the fat, breaking it up so it can be suctioned away.
By contrast, the ultrasound tubes first liquefy the fat, lessening the force needed.
Doctors who have used ultrasonic devices find they offer several advantages to the patient.
They have healed quicker. They have less bruising. They have less bleeding.
They have therefore less discomfort.
I think ultimately it might be the preferred method for all of liposuction.
This is one of the areas that you're very concerned about up here right underneath that bra line?
Yes.
Dr. Despaltro has been using ultrasound in his New Jersey practice for eight months.
The preparation is the same as for traditional liposuction.
For reference, during surgery he marks out the areas from which fat will be taken.
His patient today is 36-year-old Lisa Lasso.
Well, everything is so large. My waist is large, my hips, my legs.
A pregnancy seven years ago brought Lisa not only the twins she loves, but some extra inches she can't shed.
She's convinced surgical sculpting is the answer.
I can visualize myself how I'll look in certain clothes and I probably won't be skinny, but I'll be slim and shapely.
I'm ready. I can't wait.
Lisa decided to try ultrasound in part for the smoother result Dr. Despaltro feels he achieves with the new instrument.
Also, more fat can be suctioned in one procedure than in traditional liposuction.
In Lisa's case, several quarts of fat were removed.
But ultrasound isn't perfect, says plastic surgeon Dr. Gerald Pittman.
The disadvantage is that the ultrasound device or probe is larger than a conventional liposuction tube.
Therefore, the incision or the cut that you make to get in has to be larger.
I personally, when using ultrasound, perform it only in areas where I can hide the incision.
And so we did the...
You did all the areas you wanted. You did the upper abdomen, lower abdomen.
In Kim's case, ultrasound could be used for the entire procedure.
The scars are hidden far below her panty line.
She will be swollen for a few weeks before she sees the final results.
Because of her limited surgery, Kim is able to leave Dr. Sherman's New York office only three hours after the surgery began.
Hi Lisa, how are you?
Okay.
How have you been feeling?
For Lisa's knees and inner thighs, Dr. De Spalter used traditional liposuction.
This method leaves more bruising, but the tiny scars won't be seen.
Ultrasound leaves less bruising, but the larger scars would be visible in exposed areas.
Give me a turn around.
Two months after surgery, Lisa finds her clothes no longer fit.
Her husband Jerry says she finally has the body she's been longing for.
I hear it every morning. Look at this. I can fit in these pants. I can't believe it. I can't believe it.
I go, not too bad. Turn around.
But experts warn that even the new ultrasonic liposuction is no magic answer.
If this device seems to be able to get out more fat more easily, is it going to suddenly be used to sort of treat the whole body for obesity?
Although you can take off a lot of fat, you can eat it back on.
And no liposuction tube, no ultrasound device, is going to be able to outrace the mouth.
That's pretty.
That's your beautiful.
Lisa's new slimmer shape has made her determined to lose even more by dieting and exercising.
Since her surgery, she's dropped two dress sizes.
I'm no longer looking for anything that covers me up.
When I look at myself now and I try on the clothes that I couldn't fit into before, it amazes me.
It just amazes me. I love it.
She looks good and skinny.
I love you.
Well, we know it works for some people.
So, Tim, should anyone planning liposuction go to this new method right away?
You know, Hugh, I think it's much more important to pick a surgeon who is experienced in general with liposuction,
with the standard traditional technique, than to go to somebody who doesn't have that experience and all of a sudden decided they want to use this new device.
In other words, the new device adds an incremental benefit, but it's no substitute for knowing how to do liposuction in general in a very good way.
Are there some caveats to avoid?
Well, the one concern besides the scarring is the possibility of burn because you're using energy in this case.
So, again, if the surgeon doesn't know what he's doing, you can get a burn in the skin or underneath the skin.
Now, is this method of body contouring and weight loss actually superior to just denying yourself calories and exercising?
There's no substitute for exercise and diet for general weight loss, but even if you do that, there are going to be those little areas that won't go away,
and that's where liposuction comes in and it's very handy.
Thank you, Tim.
Well, next, a measure of comfort for a grieving family.
New developments in the case of the foreign diplomat who devastated their lives.
He'll tell you what's happening when we come back.
Hello, I'm Jennifer Ryan.
And I'm Mark Bailey.
Next on News 15, this was the scene on the streets of L.A. today.
So how well equipped are Phoenix police when criminals wield more firepower?
And police arrest a total of 30 gang members in connection with the rape of a teenager.
News 15 is next. Stay right there.
The brand new development for the time of your life.
Now, an update on a tragedy that created an international incident.
Recently we told you the story of 16-year-old Jovianne Waltrick, who was killed last month in a horrific accident in Washington, D.C.
As her immigrant parents grieved, they also learned that the foreign diplomat, who police say caused the accident by drinking and speeding,
would probably never have to answer for his actions.
George Makaradze was protected from prosecution by diplomatic immunity.
While the public was outraged, the State Department intervened.
And eventually the government of Georgia decided to waive diplomatic immunity in this case.
And that news brought some comfort to Jovianne's parents.
I do not wish vengeance. I want justice.
And justice is finally being served.
Just this week, a grand jury indicted Makaradze for Jovianne's death and for injuring four others.
A hearing is set for Tuesday.
Makaradze's lawyers say he plans to plead not guilty.
Well, now it's time to check in with Nightline. Ted Koppel previews tonight's program.
Tonight on Nightline, if beauty is only skin deep, how deep is our prejudice, the shades of success and the question of color,
exposing America's dirty little secret? America in black and white.
Tonight, followed by politically incorrect.
Well, that's Nightline after your local news.
And that is 2020 for tonight. We thank you for joining us.
Remember, we're in touch, so you be in touch. I'm Hugh Downs.
For all of us here at 2020, have a good weekend and good night.
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