Good evening, I'm Hugh Downs.
And I'm Barbara Walters.
And this is Twenty-Twenty Friday.
From ABC News, around the world and into your home, the stories that touch your life.
With Hugh Downs and Barbara Walters, this is Twenty-Twenty Friday.
Tonight, the most unimaginable story of the year, a family drama that made headlines around the world.
A Barbara Walters exclusive interview with a mother who took home the wrong baby.
I said, this has to be wrong. We need to do them again.
For the first time, she tells the inside story.
How could it happen? Her baby and another switched at birth.
Do you have any intention of switching the two children?
You'll hear about the strange events on the day of birth and see never before published pictures of the other little girl.
How do you feel now looking at Rebecca, who may be your biological child?
What went wrong that day in June?
We can't identify a specific event, a specific failure that could have led to this.
What will happen to these little girls now?
Barbara Walters with a mother's heartbreaking story and two little girls forever linked by a tragic mistake.
Switched at birth.
What?
L.
It's frustrating.
L.
Magne. Your other half tuning out when you're talking.
Do you hear anything I'm saying?
Across America, women are complaining. They have so much to say, but is the one who counts listening.
I really know some voices I hear.
Why can't you get his attention? How can you get through?
Being listened to kind of translates into being loved for me.
We'll show you surprising findings about his brand and hers.
Deborah Roberts with the importance of listening.
It could change a destructive pattern in your relationship.
Talking to a wall.
Those stories tonight, Friday, August 14, 1998, after this brief message.
It had two families and grabbed the attention of the entire world.
As this month's headlines told us, two babies, Callie and Rebecca, born within 24 hours of each other at the same Virginia hospital, were sent home with the wrong mothers.
But tonight, Barbara has the first television interview with the mother of one of the children, Paula Johnson and her boyfriend, Carlton Connolly, who is presumed to be the baby's father.
Paula Johnson learned only weeks ago that Callie, the three year old daughter that she dearly loves, is not her own.
Can you imagine how you'd feel if these if this was your child?
It is almost unimaginable, isn't it? But as you can imagine, Paula Johnson has been shaken to the core by the discovery.
Considered to be a devoted mother, she has three older boys by previous relationships and an adopted daughter.
She works long hours for a construction company and her life was hard but manageable.
And now these questions have to be answered. Who should raise these babies?
Should they be switched from the only families they have ever known?
And what is the fate of the two little girls who are now and forever linked?
A life can change forever in a day.
That is what happened here in the shadow of the Blue Ridge Mountains.
First there was tragedy and then there was shock. Ironically, it all began happily.
Do you remember the moment when you first held your baby girl?
Mm-hmm.
What was it like?
I waited for so long to have a little girl. I'd had three boys at that point. I wanted a girl so bad.
I can't even tell you how I felt.
On Saturday, July 1st, 1995, Paula Johnson and her boyfriend Carlton Connolly left the University of Virginia Medical Center,
the proud parents of a baby girl they named Callie.
On July 2nd, 1995, 16-year-old Whitney Rogers and her boyfriend Kevin Chittam left the same medical center,
thrilled to be bringing their first child, Rebecca, home.
Over the next three years, in the tiny towns of Buena Vista, where Kevin, Whitney, and Rebecca lived,
and nearby Ruckersville, Virginia, where Paula, Carlton, and Callie lived,
life went on in the way it usually does in small towns, quietly, amicably, peacefully.
Want some tea?
Callie was growing up to be a bright, cheerful little girl.
Where are my cookies?
Paula and Carlton were devoted to her. How do you feel about Callie?
I feel really good about her. She's my only daughter, and I wouldn't give the world for her.
Do you play with her? Do you take care of her?
Yes, I do. I take her everywhere I go. I take her to car races. I take her to feed my dogs.
And everywhere I go, she's behind me.
I see her, Mama.
Rebecca was safe and secure with her parents, baby sister Lindsay, and her grandparents.
They do things that all little girls do. Beauty pageants, major rats. They swim.
Rebecca was the apple of her daddy's eyes.
What's your daddy's name?
Carlton Conley.
Carlton Conley.
But this year, things began to spiral out of control.
Callie's parents, Paula Johnson and Carlton Conley, who had lived together on and off for years,
began to argue. After one bad night at this local restaurant, she filed charges,
accusing him of assaulting her and of holding her at gunpoint.
When she asked him to supplement her $250 a week salary by increasing his child support payments
of $75 a week for Callie, he refused. He says he turned to an attorney who advised him to deny
that he was Callie's father. In a fateful move, a judge ordered all three to have DNA tests.
Did you think this child was not your child?
No, I had no idea in my mind she was not mine.
So you just did it routinely. You didn't think anything was going to happen.
No, I had no idea.
Just two hours to the east, in the small town of Buena Vista, Rebecca's parents were unaware
that something was about to happen that would alter their daughter's life forever.
They were busy planning their future.
They had bought a house that Kevin was remodeling that we was hoping would be done
by the end of the summer that they could move into. And after they got this home finished,
down on Birch, they were going to get married. And she wanted it to be a big shindig.
Everybody in Rockbridge County would know when Whitney Rogers got married.
On July 4, 1998, Kevin and Whitney packed up friends and family for the drive to a county fair.
Little Rebecca was eager to go too, but at the last minute her parents decided to leave her at home
with her little sister.
A few hours later, everyone in the car was dead, killed in the worst traffic accident the area had ever seen.
900 people came to the funeral. The town mourned the loss of five of its citizens.
The Chidims had lost their son Kevin, their 13-year-old daughter Bridget, and their 11-year-old granddaughter Sheena.
The Rogers lost their beloved daughter Whitney, and Rebecca lost her parents.
I took her outside one night and told her about the stars and told her that mommy and daddy
and Bridget and Sheena were stars looking down on her and she could see them anytime she wanted at night.
Then came another cruel twist of fate.
The very week Kevin and Whitney died, Paula Johnson received her own devastating news.
Then the court calls you and says, we have found out, Miss Johnson, that this child does not have your blood or Carlton's.
Now, tell me how you felt from then on.
I didn't believe it. I just could not believe it.
There was this child that I loved and I mean, from the bottom of my heart she was everything to me.
And to find out that she wasn't mine, it just, I can't even describe how I felt.
I can't even describe it.
Does it in any way, this knowledge, change your feelings about Callie?
No, it just makes me love her more.
Why does it make you love her more?
Now there's an even more special bond. There was a special bond there before,
but there's an even more special bond there now between her and I.
I don't even know how to explain it between her and I.
For something had gone terribly wrong and it could only be traced to the hospital where Callie was born,
the University of Virginia Medical Center.
It appeared that Callie had somehow been switched with someone else's baby.
But whose and why?
And when you then saw Callie after you got this news, what did you do?
I just cried and hugged her. I couldn't do anything else.
Did she say what's wrong, Mommy?
Yes, repeatedly. She wanted to know why I was crying.
And I said because I love you so much.
Paula was crushed.
Whitney and Kevin's families, still reeling from the loss of their children just two weeks earlier,
would receive the same terrible news.
Hospital officials came and told them that their beloved granddaughter Rebecca
might actually be Paula Johnson's biological child.
Now we have the terror of Rebecca not being our grandbaby.
I don't think Whitney and Kevin could have handled this.
Because they worshiped the ground that Rebecca walked on.
I just don't think she could have handled it.
The families of Whitney and Kevin reluctantly agreed to have Rebecca's blood genetically tested
to see if her DNA would match Paula's.
Preliminary blood tests already indicated that Callie and Rebecca were the two babies most likely switched at birth.
Dr. Thomas Massaro is the chief of staff at the University of Virginia Medical Center.
Well, it's forced us to relook at everything we do.
The sense is that something happened here that we wouldn't have wanted to happen for the world.
So we've been doing a great deal of introspection,
self-evaluation, and analysis of our practice and procedures.
Because there has been a sharp rise in the number of babies abducted in the United States,
most hospitals have dramatically tightened security procedures using advanced technology
to keep track of their smallest patients.
But at the University of Virginia Medical Center, there was no high-tech security three years ago.
They relied on plastic identity tags for mothers and babies.
The University of Virginia Medical Hospital claims that
they put identity bracelets on all babies and mothers immediately after delivery.
Was that your experience?
No, it was not.
What was your experience?
They did not ban me in the room, in the labor and delivery room.
They banned me once I got over onto the floor, over onto the maternity floor.
And the child was not in the room long enough for them to put bands on her.
She wasn't in there no more than three or four minutes.
In the delivery room?
Yes, from the time that she was delivered.
You were not banned, and neither was the child banned.
That's right.
But when the child was given to you the next morning, seven hours later,
she then had an identity bracelet on?
Yes, ma'am.
But there was, in your mind, that period in which neither you nor the child were banned.
Yes.
Were you in the delivery room, Carlton?
I was there every moment of it.
Do you remember an identity bracelet being put on the baby or on Paula?
No, I don't.
In fact, not only does Paula contend that the ID bracelets were put on too late,
she showed us the actual bracelets that Callie wore.
The hospital says that for security measures, when identification bracelets are put on the wrist and on the ankle,
there is no way of getting them off except to cut them or break them, correct?
And in both cases, they are not cut and they have not been pulled apart.
Right.
Which means that they were slipped off.
Right.
What does this tell you?
That their security measures aren't what they say they are?
Just yesterday, Whitney Rogers' parents told reporters they have a videotape
which shows a baby in a bassinet next to Whitney, the other mother, a few hours after birth.
That baby's ID bracelet is off, lying next to her.
And this week, while examining hospital records, Paula Johnson made a startling discovery.
This is a picture of the baby Paula gave birth to, taken by the hospital within hours of delivery.
This is a picture of the baby Kevin and Whitney took home, also given to them by the hospital.
This is the baby picture that I brought home with Callie,
and this is the baby picture that Whitney had of Rebecca.
It's the same baby.
I couldn't even believe it. I said, this is the same baby.
And when they got to look in the children's den, they could not believe it either, that it was the same baby.
That the baby that you were given in the hospital as yours is without doubt, even without DNA tests, the baby they took home.
Paula also discovered this week that Whitney had delivered a seven pound, twelve ounce baby.
Paula had delivered a nine pound, six ounce baby.
She went home a day later, but brought the baby back four hours later because she was having trouble feeding her.
This time, Paula's baby weighed seven pounds, twelve ounces, the exact birth weight of Whitney's baby.
Did you ask why the baby weighed so much less than when she was born?
Repeatedly, and the only answers that I ever got to my questions were, sometimes that just happens.
Do you plan to sue the hospital?
Not at this time.
Perhaps sometime in the future?
Perhaps.
It's been devastating.
You know, I'm a pediatrician.
I've worked in newborn nurseries for over 20 years and never had to go through anything like this.
People go into pediatrics and obstetrics because it's a happy time of life.
And then to meet with this has been a disaster to all of us.
Can further disaster be avoided?
How exactly will the two little girls be raised?
How did Paula Johnson feel when just this week she met Rebecca's grandparents?
All this when we return.
MUSIC
...involved, and both Callie and Rebecca's families, mindful of the potential hurt,
are making an extraordinary effort, determined to do what is in the best interest of the children.
When we think of custody cases, we usually think of anguished scenes like these.
Three-year-old baby Richard torn from the arms of his adoptive mother.
Oh, God!
Or nine-year-old Kimberly Mays, switched at birth and trapped in a bitter custody battle that went on for years.
But in Virginia this week, both sides, Rebecca's and Callie's families,
prepared to meet alone, without lawyers, without acrimony.
Paula Johnson was nervous about the reception she would receive, but she needn't have worried.
They were absolutely wonderful.
When I walked in the door, they gave me a box of, it had 12 dozen long-stem red roses in it.
They brought all kinds of gifts for Callie and just absolutely wonderful people.
Very tight, you know, very close family, very loving family.
They, um...
SIGHS
I'm sorry.
That's all right, try to tell me. I know how hard it is.
SIGHS
I don't think that they could have told me any more about Rebecca than Whitney and Kevin could if they were alive.
I mean, that's how close this family and the Rogers family was the same way.
They knew this child's likes, her dislikes, her sleeping habits.
They say she wakes up in the middle of the night and wants ice.
Um, and she loves crab legs. Um, they just knew so much about this kid.
The ice and the crab legs.
You have said that you like ice.
Yes.
And you like crab legs.
Yes.
So this child seemed to be a lot like you.
Yes.
Well, what did that make you feel?
Made me feel closer to all of them.
That we could sit there and just talk about...
Talk about the, you know, the kind of stuff that...
Callie isn't.
You know, it was just, it was very strange, very strange.
Did you tell them about Callie?
Yes.
Did they recognize things about Callie that seemed like that to you?
Yes. Callie absolutely loves pizza and chicken.
And that's all, they said that's all that Whitney would eat.
At the family meeting, they shared stories and photos.
Paula saw the first pictures she'd ever seen of Rebecca as she is today.
What did you think when you saw these pictures?
She looks a lot like me when I was little.
She looks like you when you were little?
Did it make you feel any differently about her, any differently about Callie?
No. No.
If anything, I love her more.
Why?
Because she's my heart.
The story of Callie and Rebecca has been in papers all over the world,
bringing to public light private turmoil.
In a meeting with Rebecca's family and with us,
Paula and Carlton address some of the charges that have been raised.
Now, just seven months ago, you obtained a restraining order against Carlton.
Yes.
And that trial is supposed to come up, isn't it?
Yes.
Are you going to drop charges?
No.
So you're abusive, but what, Carlton?
I told you there were going to be tough questions,
but you know there's been a lot of stuff that's been asked.
I know it has.
I feel I'm on one of those talk shows, you know.
All I got to say, I'm not a bad guy.
I mean, what's happened now is what happened.
I mean, it's in the past.
Tom Rogers, Whitney's father.
The paper said a lot of things, dug up things that,
I know everybody has trouble in their younger days,
but you can't hold that against him.
He's a real nice guy.
He seems very supportive, too.
Paula also had a brush with the law.
She was charged in 1994 with lunging and cursing at the teacher,
who dropped off her son.
Wesley was coming off the steps, and she pulled off and spun gravel on my son, Wesley,
on my 12-year-old.
And I did curse and abuse her at that time.
And I pled guilty, I was guilty of saying I was defending my children.
If this did get to court, are you at all concerned that the courts might say,
this is not a happy home, look at their record?
Does that trouble you at all?
Yeah, it does. It really does.
But I'm a good mom.
I mean, everything that I've done, I've done for my children, everything.
Both sets of families had come to the meetings determined to see
what would be in the best interests of their children.
And understanding each other, answering questions honestly,
made the delicate negotiations easier.
A lot of things we talk about makes me feel better.
Talking to her, finding out what kind of lady she really was,
and I found out she's a real nice lady.
She's like us.
Her and her mother.
Just everybody there was extra nice.
She was like us.
She's a middle class lady.
We were all, when we talked, pretty much grew up about the same way.
We're not rich, but we're not poor.
And we are close to our families, and they're the same way.
The same way.
Like Brenda said, she's a real loving mother.
I can see that she loves Callie as much as we love Rebecca.
Rebecca's family have said that they found you to be very much like them.
Middle class, hard working.
How did you feel when you met the family?
I felt really great.
They're real nice people.
They're home-down people like we are.
Now that you know that Callie is not your biological child,
and that Rebecca is or may be, are you in this for the future?
Are you going to be there no matter what as these children's father?
Yes, I'm planning on it, whatever it takes.
Have you given it some thought?
Yes, I'll give it thought.
And I'm planning to be out here as long as they live.
Any plans to marry?
No.
Any plans to live together?
No.
But you still love Callie and plan to raise her together?
Yes.
Do you have any intention of switching the two children?
No.
None?
None.
Do Rebecca's grandparents have any intention of switching the two children?
No.
Rebecca's parents were killed.
Right.
So Rebecca is technically an orphan.
Her mother and father are gone.
Would this make you want to bring up both Rebecca and Callie?
That is, would you want custody of Rebecca?
I think that we can all do it.
We can all raise them.
The Rogers, the Chittams, myself, you know, my family, Carlton.
You know, we can all raise them together.
You live in different parts of Virginia.
You're an hour and a half away from each other.
How do you raise them together?
That doesn't mean anything.
If it means taking two or three days a week to go down there to see her,
then that's what I'll do.
And the same for them.
If it means for them to come up here to see Callie,
then that's what they'll do.
I mean, I don't think that we're going to have a problem in agreeing whatsoever
on how we raise these children and how we should all come together to do it.
Someone may ask, why not switch the children?
They're three years old.
They'll eventually, you know, get close to the other family.
Why not switch them?
Not just, it's not only because I love Callie, but with Rebecca,
that's the only thing that child has ever known for three years.
I cannot just take her out of her home and bring her to a home with me
with four other children.
She has absolutely no clue who we are.
She has no idea.
That's not fair, as it would be the same for them to do for Callie,
to take Callie from me and move her down there when they don't even,
Callie doesn't have any clue who they are.
Would you want Rebecca to call you mommy if she felt that she wanted to?
People think that you can just turn your love off
and turn a child over that you've had for three years.
You can't do that.
You cannot take a child that you have had for three years
and say we don't want her anymore.
You just can't do that.
And anybody in their right mind that says they can do that
are very cold and sick people.
To think that we could just turn our heart off and say we don't want her anymore,
to me that will never happen.
Do you think that there's any reason why you'll have to go to court?
No. No, not at all.
Perhaps there have been situations of extended families,
but certainly nothing quite like this.
Do you really think that this will work, all of you in a way,
bringing up the children together, living as one large family?
I hope and pray to God.
What kind of relationship do you think that Callie and Rebecca will have?
Hopefully they can grow up as sisters, you know,
or have a sisterly love there.
That's what I hope.
When do you think you will tell Callie?
About six or seven.
What exactly will you tell Callie?
I've thought about this a hundred times,
and I don't actually know how to say I'm not your real mommy,
but I am her real mom.
I mean, I don't even know how I would tell her that.
I've thought about it a hundred times,
and I have absolutely no clue how I would start it with her.
I couldn't tell her nothing.
I could not look in her eyes and tell her and see the hurt
that she's going to feel and the anger.
I mean, they keep bringing up about the little Mays girl,
and I don't want that to happen to Callie and Rebecca.
Does Callie feel now that anything is wrong?
I mean, all these people swarming around her?
We've told her that all of the camera people
and everybody taking pictures of her was because she was so beautiful,
so that's why she thinks that everybody's around her now.
She thinks she's just so pretty that all the cameras are here?
I can pick you up. You're not that heavy.
This raises so many issues, but one of them is what makes a parent.
In your terms, what is a parent?
Somebody who sits up at night with their children when they're sick.
Somebody who takes their children to school.
Somebody who plays baseball outside with their kids.
Just because they have that biological term as mother or father
doesn't mean anything.
Do you love your mommy? How much?
That much?
Anybody can be a mother or father,
but it takes a special person to be a mommy or daddy.
Takes a special person to be a mommy or daddy.
Hugh, very unusual.
Today, the University of Virginia Medical Center
took out ads in both the local and national papers,
and the letter signed by the president of the university
expresses regret for the, quote, unspeakable sorrow
caused by the possible switch of the two babies,
and the president goes on to say that their sadness and concern
will be the catalyst for action.
Where better procedures are known, they will be put into place at once.
That's good news.
Anybody have any idea when these babies got switched?
Well, Paula Johnson now says that she believes that the mix-up of the babies
took place during five hours in the middle of July 1, 1995,
a time when both babies were away from their parents.
Now, and what's the status of the investigation now?
There are two police organizations that are investigating it.
At the moment, there are no conclusions and no suspects.
Thank you, Barbara.
Well, next, does your spouse tune you out?
Do you feel like you're talking to a wall?
Deborah Roberts explores the differences in how men and women listen to each other.
How can you make yourself heard after this?
How many times have you said to the men in your life,
I already told you that, but you weren't listening?
Well, it seems to be a complaint that's heard everywhere.
But don't be too fast to blame your partner.
As Deborah Roberts explained once before,
new research shows that men and women listen differently.
You can love someone dearly and still tune them out.
For the past 15 years, Linda Goldis of Sarasota, Florida,
has been on a quest, trying to get her husband, Al, to listen to her.
Al, did you call the guy from the chimney, the stucco man, to fix the hole in the chimney? Al?
Al's the classic tune-out husband.
When Linda talks, he seems to completely ignore her.
Al? Al, can you hear anything I'm saying?
According to one poll, 77% of American wives complain that their husbands just don't listen to them.
No, he doesn't listen to me.
It has to be an earth-shattering thing for him to listen to me.
It's not as important as what he's doing.
Even as we interviewed Linda, we looked over, and sure enough, Al had already tuned out.
Did he catch anything his wife just said?
Not really, no. Just some voices I heard.
Baseball scout, always on the phone making deals.
Yeah, you got a middle of the field, you can run and throw like that.
And when the phone rings, he snaps to attention.
Who was that with?
497, that sounds like a...
But if it's not about work, he tunes out all over again.
That's what will happen. Sometimes anything will hold his attention, but that's not something that I will say.
And something else will grab his attention. And it always makes... it gets me crazy.
Al?
Yeah?
Did you hear that?
Oh, no, I heard the phone.
But she's sitting there talking about you. Aren't you remotely interested in what she's saying about you?
Yeah, you know, I've heard this before, so I go on because it wasn't really of that significant.
And what do you think, Linda, when you hear that he really is sort of thinking, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard that?
It's very frustrating. Being listened to kind of translates into being loved for me.
And when I'm not listened to, it makes me feel that I'm not a priority and that I'm not loved and respected.
So is this man completely insensitive or is his wife just a nag?
Well, the answer is it's not that simple.
We've discovered something that many couples have long suspected, something that could be the key to saving your relationship.
Turns out men and women listen differently. And if you don't know exactly how your partner listens, you could be headed for trouble.
Case in point, Al. He claims a good excuse for tuning Linda out.
He's concentrating on the careers of the young baseball players who depend on him.
I got to see whether this is a kid that we're going to consider for draft or not.
I can't worry about a chimney. I'm worried about a player.
Al was a listen on listening burnout and I was a listening wannabe.
He had to listen all day long on the phone. So when it came to having any extra listening ability, he just didn't have it.
And I, in turn, I didn't have anybody to listen to me.
So they chalked up their listening troubles to Al's demanding job, made sense, until Linda tried a new strategy,
to get Al to listen to her while they were in the car, away from the phone, the TV and other work distractions.
Toby was hoping that she would get like Florida and maybe, you know, think of moving here.
What would you think about that, about having her live with us for like a little while?
Al?
Yeah?
Did you hear what I said?
She tried and failed. Al still not listening.
What were you thinking about?
I was just thinking about this kid that we worked out the other day.
Is there every time where I can get you to listen to me?
So we called in listening expert Kitty Watson of Tulane University for some advice.
Al, did you hear what I said?
She has a very complex theory about husband tune-out.
Alright, let's stop for a second.
What was going on there?
Well, I think you see the two clashes of listener styles.
And this clash could also be the breakdown in their relationship.
It has to do with the way we each listen to the world around us.
Turns out we don't all do it the same way.
In fact, there are several distinct categories of listeners, and she has a test to tell what kind you are.
Problem is, sometimes the man has a style of listening that's not compatible with his wife's way of listening.
I'm more content and then action-oriented.
I'm only people. I'm low in everything else.
Linda falls into the category of people-oriented listener.
She's sharply tuned in to things like personal problems, details about friends and relatives.
Okay, people-oriented listeners are most concerned with how listening influences their relationships with others.
And you are?
I'm people-oriented.
You are. But she tries to help. She's very sensitive to people's feelings. She really is. She feels the problem.
Now here we have this other person, the male, not listening to the wife in this case.
This is kind of revealing his skill level to see what would be the most appropriate place to put him.
He is thinking about his own agenda, what he wants to get done, what he wants to do, and so he tunes her out.
They're after getting the goal accomplished.
Al is what she calls an action-oriented listener. For him, it's what you do that counts, not what you feel or talk about.
How do you know whether a guy's listening?
When a man's on first base and you give him a signal to steal second base and you look up and the guy's standing on second base, you knew he was listening.
If you looked up and he was standing on first base, very simply, he wasn't listening.
Unfortunately for the Goldis's, action-oriented listeners and people-oriented listeners are at opposite ends of the spectrum and likely to clash.
For example...
It was almost like something that was the last on the list of priorities was our relationship and Al and him listening to me.
Linda is pouring her heart out to us, and as a people-oriented listener, she expects Al to be looking at her, noticing her body language as she talks.
Instead, action-oriented Al begins making baseball notes. To him, relationship talk is unproductive downtime. He figures he may as well get some work done.
So the relationship and listening became like something that was like the most, the last thing on the list.
When Linda finally notices she's offended...
He was right. You weren't writing while I was talking. I didn't pick up that he was writing.
So what can she do to get him to listen a little better?
Not to just go on and on and on with information, but to maybe organize it. I have two things I'd like to talk to you about that are real important to me. Do you have time now?
Now just because he's not quite paying attention to her at the moment doesn't mean that he doesn't value her, does it?
It doesn't mean that at all, but she might interpret it that way.
When you listen to somebody, you have to look at them. That's one rule of listening.
She's assuming I'm not listening, but I really am. Even though I'm writing.
But if he wasn't looking at her, why would she assume otherwise?
I don't know why she would otherwise.
So we have to show people that we're listening. We can't just assume that because they love us or we love them that we're going to get credit for listening.
Listening is such a problem in marriage, comedian Rob Becker makes a great living from it. Boy, his routine sounds familiar.
See, a man doesn't just watch the TV, a man actually becomes the TV.
Al? Al?
It's almost like he becomes the TV.
See, if I'm watching TV and Erin tries to talk to me, I can't even hear her voice.
I'm aware of a buzzing noise.
It's coming from outside the TV somewhere.
And it's getting madder too.
I can't have this external noise coming in, especially if it has no relationship to what I'm talking about with Soap Suds or buying Ajax.
It's certainly not going to contribute to my evaluation of this particular player.
All right, we're not good at doing a lot of things at once. We can lock into one thing. We're good at that. We evolved that way for the task of hunting.
Becker may be right. Recent scientific evidence shows that a man's brain is built to listen to just one thing at a time.
When he listens, he uses only one side of his brain, the left side.
That's different from a woman who uses both sides of her brain while listening.
What's it all mean?
Well, a man can focus in on sounds he wants to hear and ignore the ones he doesn't easier than a woman.
There's only half as much noise coming into his brain, so it's easy for him to concentrate on one thing, unlike a woman.
Good morning, Deborah.
Okay, what you're subjecting yourself to is there's going to be two stories playing at exactly the same time.
Exactly the same time.
Exactly the same time, okay?
Pay attention to one of those stories and ignore the other one.
Listening researcher Richard Halley has a test to prove this brain theory.
Oh, boy. All right, this is quite a challenge to hear two things at the same time until you sort it out.
This is a short story entitled That Pig of a Moran by Demolpher Sols.
This is The Monkey's Paw by WW Jacobs.
He played two stories at once for an equal number of men and women and told everyone to ignore one story and pay attention to the others.
Now, most male test subjects had very little trouble doing this, but look at what a tough time I'm having.
Like most women taking the test, my brain kept trying to listen to both stories at once.
I just couldn't seem to shut out one story and focus in on the other.
That's right.
I've got to give up. I cannot understand.
I mean, there was a time when I could start to hear.
I mean, I thought I could sort of isolate the stories, but I can't even begin to hear anything after a while.
Yes, females tend to check back and forth between the two stories.
Right, that's what I was doing.
Okay, and as soon as you check on the one that you're not supposed to listen to, then it's harder to get back, right?
And then you don't know which story is which anymore.
Right.
Well, that explains some of the listening differences I've had with my husband.
I was in a restaurant once where my husband and I were sitting along talking, and suddenly a woman starts to talk behind us.
Pretty soon, I can't tune this woman out. All I can hear, I mean, I hear our conversation, but I keep hearing bits of her conversation because it's driving me nuts.
My husband doesn't understand why it's bothering me because it's not bothering him.
Why is it bothering me and not him?
He is not checking that other message, right?
He's staying with you.
He's not shifting.
You are shifting, whether you want to or not, because of the way your mind is built, your brain is built, so you're going to notice her.
Now, the problem for your husband is that doesn't happen to him that way.
All this research helps us understand Al better.
Maybe he's not insensitive.
He's just listening like a man.
For whatever reason, it's important to him to listen to something besides his wife, and he's focused in on that.
It's going to be difficult for him to switch over and find out what's important to his wife.
Then it's going to take a very strong message from their wife to break into that, to get them to shift.
So Linda tries a strong message to Al in action-oriented language his brain can understand, baseball talk.
Can you imagine how you would feel if, let's say, you had a ball player that you were explaining to him how you wanted him to hit and how you wanted him to turn his body?
And while you were explaining this to him, he was kind of looking up in the air and looking down on the ground and stomping the dirt.
His body language was telling you he didn't hear you at all.
How would that make you feel?
You would feel a lack of respect.
I understand that phase you put in that perspective.
But you see, my intentions all along was not like a guy who was outwardly showing disrespect.
And I felt hurt and I felt that you heard me when you said that just now.
I felt hurt.
It took us about 15 years to reach this level.
As I said, I'm a slow learner.
Deborah, we got a ton of mail when you first reported on this, and a lot of it from couples saying it gave them better understanding of each other.
That's right. They stopped blaming each other.
And Hugh, I should add too that Linda and Al have actually made some progress since we talked to them last.
They say they've learned some strategies.
For instance, if Linda sees that Al is really fully concentrating on work, she won't try to talk to him about something important because she knows she's going to get frustrated.
And when she is trying to talk to him about something important, he's agreed to put down everything and just listen to her.
It's still a struggle, but they've made some progress.
That is not a hopeless habit, and people can change.
That's right.
It's nice to know that they've made progress.
That's right. Men and women are just different.
Good. Thank you, Deborah.
Well, next, President Clinton is facing what could be the most crucial day of his presidency, a day of high drama for both the president and the nation.
We'll look at that when we return.
Once.
Or, and the fate of his presidency may depend on the outcome.
The president is scheduled via closed circuit TV to answer questions before a grand jury in Kenneth Starr's investigation of his relationship with Monica Lewinsky, the former.
Now from the White House is ABC's Sam Donaldson.
Sam, there's been a lot of speculation about just how the president will answer these questions.
Is he keeping his options open or do you think he's got it locked up in his mind what he's going to say?
Well, Hugh, it may sound ridiculous to some people, but some of the president's friends are telling reporters that Mr. Clinton will admit that he had some sexual contact with Monica Lewinsky.
And if people say, but you said in your deposition in the Paula Jones matter, you swore under oath that you'd never had sexual relations with her,
he'll say I was using a definition provided by the judge and Jones attorneys, which didn't include oral sex.
As I say, that may sound ridiculous. And in fact, that may not be what Mr. Clinton is going to say on Monday.
We'll just have to wait.
Right. In your mind, is he going to talk to the nation to explain things to all of us right afterward?
They're not saying here, but I suppose he will.
Whether it's going to be a formal address or just a few paragraphs in the Rose Garden is another thing.
But he'll want to put his spin on this story.
Now, Sunday evening in an ABC special, you and Peter Jennings are going to be presenting a lot about this to us.
What are your segments going to be about?
Well, I'm going to look at the way this president has handled crises in the past.
Jennifer Flowers, for instance, where he appeared to say one thing in 1992 publicly and then swore under oath this last January that in fact it was another thing.
And we'll also look at what his options are for Monday.
He's in a tight box.
Most people say what he has to do is tell the truth, whatever that is.
Thank you, Sam.
Remember to watch Sunday's ABC News special, Crisis in the White House, the President Testifies with Peter Jennings.
That's Sunday night, 9, 8 Central.
And we'll be right back.
Preview of tonight's program tonight on Nightline.
It's embarrassing.
It's painful.
But even if it's true, is it really impeachable?
Watergate figures John Dean and Chuck Colson will be our guests on Nightline, followed by Politically Incorrect.
That's Nightline after your local news.
And that is 20, 20 Friday.
We thank you for joining us.
Remember, we're in touch so you be in touch.
I'm Barbara Walters.
And I'm Hugh Downs.
And for all of us here at 20, 20, you have a good weekend, safe one.
Good night.
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