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This week on Public People Private Lives, Kitty Dukakis discusses her painful drug addiction.
I didn't want to hurt Michael politically.
But I was also frightened for myself.
And Willard Scott gives us his own secret formula for success.
I'm 54 years old.
I have no talent.
I'm bald-headed.
I'm overweight.
And I'm a star.
All this plus Marlee Meplin.
I learned to stand when I was five.
So I spoke before that.
On the next Public People Private Lives.
Tonight at nine on Channel 3.
Channel 3 reports.
News at the hour.
Good afternoon.
This is Stan Atkinson reporting live from Newcastle.
What happened here at five o'clock this morning brought the Southern Pacific Railroad and the town of Newcastle to a complete stop.
Things started going bad for a 95 car Southern Pacific freight train when a wheel bearing on a boxcar gave way.
It derailed 26 cars.
Some of them crashed into the back end of a church in that Butler style steel building.
And others crunched a tank car between them.
A car carrying Poppergill industrial alcohol.
It is considered a hazardous material.
Not for its vapors, but for its potential for fire.
So Newcastle became a ghost town.
Southern Pacific crews examined the wreckage and waited for a hazardous materials team to arrive.
The town shut down.
Up to a thousand residents had to be evacuated.
They are still not being allowed back into town.
The derailment also has shut down SP's main east-west line.
And until the wreckage of mangled tracks and ties, wheels and cars is removed tonight, nothing is going to move on the rails going into or out of Northern California.
And that will only happen once the alcohol is removed from the car.
The tank car will be pumped out here probably within an hour or so.
The EPA is going to take additional readings and then we'll start to work on the general pile.
Why is the EPA here?
The EPA was called by the Sacramento Fire Department response team.
I'm glad that they're here because it's something that, for the protection of the public, should be done.
SP officials are starting to clear up some of the wreckage on the other side of the pileup.
They say they may have one set of tracks open by 6 o'clock tomorrow morning.
It is frightening to think of what could have happened here this morning.
You see that green and white Caltrans sign?
That marks I-80.
That's a bridge, an overpass right over I-80.
You think of a train derailment on that highway.
And right below me, these tank cars.
They're filled with phosphoric acid.
They were right behind the cars that derailed.
If they had gone too, there could have been a major explosion and disaster.
No matter how much the people of Newcastle have been inconvenienced today, and there's no doubt that they have,
what could have happened could have been much worse.
This has been a KCRA News special report live from Newcastle.
This is Dan Atkinson.
We'll have more live coverage for you when Channel 3 reports at 5.
But now to Phil Donahue in progress.
I took a shower with me, cleaned my eyelashes, my eyebrows.
Very faithful, loyal, loving pet.
Right.
Clay, you will not be upset with us if we chuckle a bit.
And it's not because we are being cavalier about your own feelings.
It's clear you're really shook up here.
And we do not want to really, we're good people here.
We don't want to step on a person who's feeling pain.
How long has Sinbad dead?
Four years now.
And you're still choked up about it.
Of course.
What happened?
I took Sinbad to an alleged specialist on the south side of Chicago.
And he was regurgitating, which I found out later.
This is a form of affection.
And in the course of treating Sinbad, the vet did exploratory surgery without my permission.
And Sinbad died the following day.
You brought her, you brought, is it her or him?
Well, I found out it was a she.
You brought her home and she died shortly thereafter.
You found her dead the next morning. Is that it?
Right.
Uh-huh. Did you sue?
It's in litigation now.
Okay, we'll talk to your lawyer in a moment.
Here's Mary Skrabouka. Your cat Rufus is dead.
What happened?
I took the cat in for a flea bath.
For a flea bath?
Right.
Show them Rufus. There he is. There's Rufus.
For a flea bath?
Uh-huh.
Yeah, what happened?
And that evening, the vet called and told me that the cat had died.
Had passed away.
And I insisted on an autopsy because it didn't make any sense to me.
A flea bath?
Right. The cat was perfectly healthy.
And he said that there was absolutely no reason why the cat died, so they did an autopsy.
And he still didn't give me a reason.
So, it was...
You mean the vet in whose hands he was when he died did the autopsy?
Right.
You know that was a mistake.
Right. I realized that afterwards.
Are you suing Mary?
I did sue.
And?
We settled about six months ago.
Uh-huh. Would you mind telling us what the settlement was for?
Part of the agreement was that I don't have any amount.
I'm sorry.
May we presume that the settlement was for more than what would be considered the market
value of the cat?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, this is more than just a possession.
In other words, this settlement allowed for your personal anguish and I guess we could
say somehow a punitive compensatory damages would be included in the settlement.
Exactly.
Right.
So, if you can get on that stand and you can say this animal was important to me, it helped
with my loneliness, it helped me get over my heart attack or whatever it might be.
He was my friend.
It was my friend.
This is not a thing.
This is actually a relationship I have here.
Right.
Uh-huh.
The law will allow then a payment in kind.
It will.
Charles LeBeau, your dog Diamond, was badly burned while being spayed.
I don't understand that.
How did that happen?
I took her to the vet to have her spayed.
Show him my diamond.
You took him what?
I took her in to have her spayed and when I picked her up he said she was burned a little
bit and that's to bring her back Friday.
By Friday it had all turned to...
Yeah, that's a terrible picture there.
Okay, that's enough of that.
By Friday what?
It was all like it was rotting away all of her stomach and legs and under her chin.
What happened, Charles?
Do you know?
How do you...
I mean, a spay is about neutering.
You were a responsible pet owner.
You don't want any unwanted offspring, et cetera.
I assume, huh?
Right.
Okay.
So, SBCA would give you a standing ovation.
More domestic animals should be spayed.
Okay, you did that.
What happened?
They said she was burned on a heating pad.
She had to be put in an incubator because she was bleeding too much.
Oh, so it was their equipment which was overheated and caused her this pain.
You must wonder where those people were when she was obviously howling and...
Yes.
So your dog was not almost tortured, huh?
Yes.
And did you sue Charles?
Yes, I did.
And?
And I won.
They settled out of court.
Uh-huh.
Are you permitted to tell us what that judgment was?
Yes.
What was it?
8,500.
8,500.
Never going to replace a diamond.
Not what I went through, no.
Uh-huh.
But you at least got some...you figure you struck what?
You got the Veterinary Medicine Association's attention, huh?
I don't think he'll do it again.
Uh, do you live alone, Charles?
Yes.
So this was really...
With my little baby.
How long did you have that?
Seventeen years.
Uh-huh.
For it to be spayed.
Carolyn Gilman is here with her tiger.
Cat.
I'm sorry, with her cat, Tiger.
Uh, anybody have any questions yet?
What?
You're in this already, huh?
What, you should know what?
You don't care about Tiger?
No, I'm teasing.
Why would this gentleman wait 17 years to have his dog spayed?
This was done several years ago.
I didn't wait 17 years.
Well, but you didn't have the dog then for 17 years.
I had her for 17 years till she died.
Uh-huh.
But she died shortly after she was spayed.
Uh, no, she died two years...two and a half years after that.
Okay, but you're still...the question's a valid one.
You had the dog for almost 14 years
before you had her spayed.
Is it him or her?
Uh, she started having a growth in the back,
and that's why it was advised to have her spayed.
Oh, I see. Okay.
Uh, Carolyn Gilman, what's with Tiger?
Um, one Sunday I noticed that Tiger's right front leg was very swollen,
and so I called the vet, and my regular vet wasn't in,
but there was another vet there, so I brought him over,
and I had to leave him there because he said, um,
it looked like it would have to be drained, and so I did that,
and a couple of hours later I got a telephone call,
and the vet started babbling.
He said it was a human error. Anybody could have done it.
It could have happened to anyone, and I said, what happened?
And he had declared Tiger's, um, hind legs by mistake,
and the reason he did that once was...the reason he did that
was because there was another gray tabby similar to Tiger,
and he mixed them up.
And he mixed them up.
The other gray tabby was to be declawed.
Right.
Now, uh, Carolyn, you'll put up with these rather insensitive questions.
We're trying to shine some light here.
Uh, this is hardly the kind of problem that these other victims have.
Mm, I see that. But Tiger is a member of the family.
Yeah, but she's no less a member of the family...or he?
He is no less a member of the family without his hind legs.
Oh, but this is a cat who goes outside,
and he needs his claws to protect himself.
Right. So he can't perform his evolutionary kind of mission
without the claws.
Right, right, yeah.
Uh-huh. Uh, your cat...I don't think you'll be upset if I say
your cat does appear to be somewhat overweight.
Yes, he is.
That's because he can't run around so much.
Aww.
What's the matter?
Um, well, thank you for not being upset, Ms. Gilman.
Um, but isn't that connected? I assume it is, huh?
I would think so, yes.
So he does not get the exercise he otherwise would had he...uh-huh.
Does this mean you can't take him out as much as you...is that it?
Well, I worry about it a lot more when he does go out.
He's not capable of defending himself again.
Because I feel that he's much more vulnerable
than he would be if he had all his claws.
Did you sue?
Yes, I did.
How'd you do?
Not well. All I got was the lawyer's fee, and that was it.
The vet's insurance company didn't even bother sending a lawyer to the courtroom.
Uh, yes, and who...and you represent...
Clay Cummings.
You represent...you're the lawyer representing Mr. Cummings.
That's correct.
Now let me just catch up here with Mr. Cummings.
You're the...you're Sinbad, the macaw that died.
That's correct.
Um, and, uh, it...help me is, uh...
Well, what Clay is suing for,
and what is really important for everyone to understand, I think, nowadays,
is that intangible relationship the pet gives the...the pet gives the family owner.
Uh, Clay has found out, as I think every other family owner has found out,
that a pet gives that intangible relationship of caring and love
unselfishly to the pet owner, and that needs to be compensated
when a vet is, uh, negligent in his care and treatment of the animal.
Yeah. You're scaring the life out of the veterinary medicine industry, you know.
Well, we...we hope to.
There's a lot of those...now we're gonna have
malpractice crises within that community.
Well, I...I think it's...it's interesting because the vet makes his living
off of the care and trust and that bond that develops between the pet owner and the pet,
and not to have some type of compensation or award for that relationship...
Gives them a blank check for, uh, for potential carnage.
Exactly.
Let me, uh, you've got the lines jammed here. Are you there? Call her. Go ahead.
Yes, so, um, my dog was taken to Animal Medical Center.
She was pregnant, and I took her there at four in the morning,
and the vet examined her and said,
well, maybe the puppy is dead, but your dog is okay.
Next morning, my dog was listless.
She had green discharge at the time.
I took her to Animal Medical Center, which...that was...smelled terrible,
and I brought her to my regular vet. The vet performed a cesarean.
The dog's bladder was ripped in two.
Her uterus was lacerated.
The puppy was dead, and the dog died.
And...and did you sue?
I'm in the process of it.
Uh-huh, you've got it. You've already...
I'm trying to find a lawyer. Um, I don't...it's not a money thing.
It's a fact that this dog meant more to me. I adored her,
and they can't tell you when they're in pain.
Uh, that's another point that these litigants make.
A dog can't talk, so the dog cannot share with you
what might have happened inside the veterinary hospital area.
Um...
They didn't perform x-rays, and it's my belief that when the vet examined her
at Animal Medical Center that her...that she actually lacerated her, um, her bladder
because she stuck her finger in her, and...and I mean, they didn't do anything.
They sent me home, and this was a dog that was pregnant, and it was important.
Um, to me, it was a, you know, a new baby in the family kind of thing.
I believe you. I want you to meet Steve Wise.
He's president of the Animal Legal Defense Fund.
You handle pet malpractice suits, do you?
I do.
You prosecute them?
I do.
Uh-huh. What would you say to this woman?
I'd say she should find herself a good lawyer as soon as possible.
Yeah. What...what kind of money are we potentially talking about here?
What is the history of this thing in the courtroom?
The history in the courts is not good at all.
Uh, 50 years ago, she probably would have gotten $50 if she won.
Uh, 10 years ago, she probably would have gotten $500.
Uh, three years ago, she may have gotten $750.
Now, under theories that, uh, that Ken and I and other attorneys are developing,
she may be able to get $3,000 or $5,000 or $10,000, maybe $15,000.
Uh, so you would see $15,000 as a...as an all-time record judgment?
In 1988, I'd say we did real well.
Right. And the veter...the veterinarians are saying, uh, that won't be the end of it.
You know how you lawyers are.
That's how we are, yes. Uh, it's primarily because that...because our clients come in, um, distraught.
99% of the people who come into my office is...they're...they're...pets have died.
I assume you have a jaded view then of veterinary medicine, do you?
No, I...I...they're...pets have died.
I assume you have a jaded view then of veterinary medicine, do you?
No, I...I don't. Uh, some of my best friends are veterinarians.
Really?
Yeah. Well, then what is...what is your general observation then about the, uh, care and treatment
and professional level and sensitivities of...
Veterinarians are like lawyers and doctors and every other kinds of professional.
They're not perfect. They make mistakes.
When they make a mistake, the victim should be compensated.
And the same...probably there's the same percentage of veterinarians who make mistakes that there are lawyers.
It is very hard to get past Charles LeBeau's, uh, grief here. I see it in his face.
I also see it in Clay Cummings' face.
Uh, here's a man with a bird that he felt very close to.
Um, I assume then as a lawyer you're saying that...if...if I...if I can make the case that this was my life,
we could be talking seven figures here any...any day now.
No, not any day now. Um, I'm hoping maybe in 20 or 30 years,
we'll probably never talk about seven figures for the loss of a...of a...someone's pet.
Uh, we...we may be talking regularly into the five figures, uh, unless there's a dramatic...
Ten thousand and up.
Ten thousand, maybe up to $50,000 if...if, uh, if the courts and judges and juries begin to really understand what we're talking about.
Uh, James Wilson, doctor of veterinary medicine, is with you.
Uh, let me just say that you are, uh...you've written a book on law and ethics in the veterinary profession.
Let me give you a chance to make your point, but let me take this call.
Hi, go ahead.
Hi. Um, I had a dog three years ago. His name was Zeus.
Uh, he came home. I took one look at him. Practically condemned him. Had a must to a vet.
At the vet, he was misdiagnosed for a dislocated hip when actually he had a broken back and it was totally apparent on their x-rays.
I took him back three days later because they were totally ineffective.
I brought him to another doctor, spent a thousand dollars trying to save him because he was my child, my four-footed child until I had a two-footed child.
Um, he tried to save him two days later. He had to put him to sleep. I was devastated.
I looked for an attorney to go after them because they, as far as I was concerned, they could tend him to death.
And, um, they wouldn't touch it. They just, you know, they didn't get enough money from it.
You couldn't get it? I would think that would be a problem. Let me pursue that with Dr. Wilson.
You know, how many... First of all, why don't you give us your overview of this thing?
You're a DVM yourself. Go ahead.
I am. I'm a DVM and I have a law degree as well. And that's why I have my interest in this particular topic.
I practiced as a veterinarian for 16 years. I see the bond. I understand that bond.
And that bond is a critical part of our treatment when we're dealing with your animals, anybody's animal,
whether it be a bird, whether it be a cat, dog, or it can be a horse. It can be a mouse, you know.
A gerbil.
And a gerbil. Absolutely. It's there. So the bond is there.
I lost a white mouse myself. Go ahead. Make your point, sir.
So the point is that we as a profession are not perfect. We have our imperfections as every other profession does.
And I actually am in agreement that the bond is something that we treasure as a part of our relationship with our clients.
And if it's broken by negligence, you think there should be...
I believe there must be some sentimental damage rewards in these cases to allow for that.
And that is actually beginning to occur in the legal circles.
The real problem is that attorneys don't want these cases because they really can't make any money out of it.
No, they can't. You're in a $700 something. No attorney is going to jump through his law degree to get at that case.
Now the horse world, again, the world of valuable horses, you have a market value of millions of dollars.
It's an entirely different situation. But that's not the companion animal world that we're dealing with the end day out.
Right. I'm glad you waited, caller. Go ahead.
Hello?
Yeah. Go ahead.
My biggest mistake was not suing. I had a beautiful water-haired fox terrier and I didn't go to court.
But this vet brutalized him. He broke both his legs and left him for dead.
We had five hearings at the Office of Professional Discipline.
I had pictures, sworn statements, records. I brought other cases.
And in my opinion, the whole thing was a whitewash. It stinks.
And I'm very glad that somebody, that there is a program like this.
Generally...
Do you have any questions?
Thank you for asking. Have you got an hour for it?
I want to save my dog.
I usually...
Hang on one second. Let's see if we get some wisdom here.
Until recently, when I believe a change occurred, I did not send clients to a Board of Registration in Veterinary Medicine.
They do not generally across the country, I believe, approach these kinds of problems.
Honestly, they don't police their profession and I just say, skip it, let's go to court.
It's the fox and the chicken coop problem.
Absolutely.
It depends on the state. There are some states that are very aggressive with their state boards and we are seeing some changes.
There are other states that really, it is a whitewash and can very easily be.
Are you there? Hi, I'm glad you waited.
Yes, I have a four-year-old terrier that I put in a vet's hands for the removal of a fatty tumor.
And while he was on the operating table, the vet called me and said,
he's sure the tumor is malignant and wants to put the dog down.
Fortunately, I refused and the vet continued to argue with me that not only was it surely malignant,
but the removal of the tumor was impossible and I continued to refuse.
And it turned out that there was no malignancy and he charged me $400 for this nightmare.
Did you pay it?
Yeah, I did because until I saw your show, I never thought of, you know, seeking any recourse against a veterinarian.
How did you know it was a malignant tumor?
I insisted upon a biopsy.
And the biopsy proved that it wasn't?
The biopsy proved conclusively that it wasn't.
Is that your dog in the background?
It sure is.
Well, is it a she? Is it a girl dog?
No, it's a male.
It's a male. Well, he sounds fine to me.
He sure is. And I was fortunate to find another vet who removed the tumor two and a half years ago and there's been no return.
Right. Can you see your TV?
Uh, can now, yeah.
See Spoke?
Huh?
Spoke does tricks.
He does.
This is a very bright dog. Watch this.
Shake hands, Spoke.
My dog does those kind of tricks too.
Spoke, this is a dumb host.
Spoke, you can do this. We're live, Spoke.
Come here. You want to shake hands with me?
Give me your paw.
Hold this in your hand.
Aww.
That's Spoke. Did you see that?
Give me your paw. Give me your paw.
Give me your paw. Give me your paw.
Shake.
You did good.
And we'll be back in just a moment.
Music
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Here's the truth Michael Dukakis doesn't want you to see.
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And family income is up.
Why would we want to go back to the tax and spend policies of eight years ago?
America can't afford that risk.
It's happening this Wednesday.
This Wednesday I've got a date with Larry.
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The celebration starts Wednesday at the Ross near you.
If you join us late, these folks have or have tried unsuccessfully or successfully sued veterinarians for what they believe to be malpractice, negligence in the treatment of their pets.
Some of, shall I say whom, survived and some of whom didn't.
Are you there, hi.
Yes, Phil?
Yeah.
I'm a devoted animal lover and they truly become a family member.
And people have to treat them as you would a family member.
If they have to be in the hospital, go there.
Spend time with them.
Call every hour.
Make the vet and his assistants know how much you care and demand that you can be with your animal.
So it's not just a thing in a cage.
No, and that's how they get treated, believe me.
They're happy and they really don't give them love.
I went to the vet every day.
You know your animal knows that you're the one who loves them and takes care of them and they love you.
Please, mister.
Give that back to them.
Listen to Mr. LeBow's point.
He, his dog Diamond as you know was the dog, the animal that was burned after having been apparently placed in a...
Electric heating pad.
An instrument that's supposed to keep them warm for the...
It's a household electric heating pad as opposed to a medical water bath.
You say you visited.
Every day I went to the hospital because she's supposed to be out in three days and they kept her a week.
Uh-huh.
So were you able to see your dog when you were there?
She was always in an incubator just laying down and she was on drugs.
Uh-huh.
How were you welcome at the hospital?
They were always friendly to me but they didn't tell me what was wrong with the dog until I found that out on my own after I brought her home.
This woman does make a point I assume you believe, Dr. Wilson.
Oh it's a critical point.
I mean many of these animals when they're hospitalized they get depressed.
I mean you know the worst place to be sick is in a hospital if you're a human.
I mean your family's not there, your food is different and so it's really important that you have that kind of attention being given.
Yeah.
The question was whether the owner of a pet should be compensated.
Well in my ethnic heritage if you take a pet you are responsible for that pet to eat before you eat.
And so the closeness and the attachment of a pet to an owner is more than family.
It's a degree above his family.
A degree, uh-huh.
Are you here with your wife?
Yes.
Where is she?
Right here.
A pet would be a level above your wife?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
That's right.
But I don't own a pet.
That's why.
Don't go near.
Don't go near a gerbil, a canary or anything.
What ethnic heritage is this?
Jewish.
And it's mandated in our history that if we take a pet that pet must be fed before we eat.
And that's the way the closeness and the attachment of a man to take care of his pet.
Uh-huh.
Well your commentary is...
Is there any support for this?
Hang on one second.
True?
Sure it's true.
You love them.
They're part of you.
So you can't help but love them and take care of them.
Yeah.
I think that they should be compensated for because animals are very loyal.
Yeah.
And I think that anybody that does something so sadistic as that should be put in jail.
And the animal might blame you for the pain.
Well you know, how could the person who takes care of me do this to me?
I'm really sorry to hear about your pets but what actually happens to the veterinarians that this is coming about to?
In other words, does a vet get a slash on its record or something?
How would you know what is good and what isn't good?
How would you know that in human medicine?
We don't.
But in other words, is there a slash on their record?
They can have a license to vote.
You can get a vet candidate.
In California they revoke three to five licenses every year.
They put veterinarians on suspension with suspended licenses.
They are forced to go to 50 hours worth of continuing education.
There's an entire gamut of remedies that can be forthcoming for a veterinarian who has been in some way negligent in the care of a client or an animal.
So how do you go about picking a quality veterinarian?
Ah, good question.
You know.
Talk to somebody who's happy with it.
If I may, real quickly.
Sure.
Mr. Ross.
I think it's important for everyone to realize that pets are treated just the same as a car or a chair you're sitting on.
And you really have to understand in the eyes of the law, though everyone here I think is in agreement that pets have value, the law looks at them as simply a piece of property.
And the problem lawyers have and everyone else has is how do you get more compensation than just what that value property is.
You have to understand that.
And that's what we're trying to change.
I think judges have to be educated too.
You're right.
That's what I was hoping for when I sued my veterinarian.
I didn't want the money.
I wanted the judge to realize how much pets meant to people.
How long have you had Tiger, Carol?
Twelve years.
Uh-huh.
Let me introduce another agony here.
Who can put your dog to sleep?
Who can put your dog to sleep beside you?
Can the vet do it without calling you?
No.
What if you're not home?
Come on in here, Lucky.
What will I tell you about this story?
Here is a golden lab, is it?
Retriever.
Come here, Lucky.
Come here, my dog, baby.
Um, we got the setter now taking a look.
Come on up here.
Uh, Lucky, come here.
Come here, baby.
I want to get you on TV.
You see here what happened?
Now, let me just, uh, this dog was hit by a car.
And almost dead.
Now, the dog shows up at the vet and they call the owner and the owner is not there.
Uh, and they, there.
Uh, and they, they saved the dog.
But look at this damage here.
I mean, it's more than just, you can see it's, uh, I won't, I won't, I won't bother you.
Look at the dog.
What, what?
It's alive.
Yeah, the dog, the dog is alive.
Are you Dr. Maritado?
Yes, I am.
How does dog life, did you like?
I like to think so.
Um, now let me tell you.
The owner of this dog, I happen to know personally.
The owner of this dog would have put the dog to sleep had she been there to make the.
Yeah, we were kind of lucky like that.
That's his name too.
Yeah.
When he was first hit by a car, the owner wasn't around.
And, uh, we just did what we had to do to get them through.
And, uh, after one week of being in the hospital, this dog made dramatic improvement.
And, uh, yet when the owner came to see him, I mean, she had left this healthy golden retriever and came back to see a dog that was lame and, uh, looking painful.
And, uh, she initially wanted to put the dog to sleep after one week of being in the hospital, having made so, so much recovery.
Um, but she waited another couple of days and, uh, we, uh, we and lucky convinced her that, uh, she made the right decision.
How much?
Don't tell them.
How much?
Yeah.
Eight hundred.
Four thousand.
Two thousand.
Huh?
Nothing.
This is a Jersey, right?
Fourteen hundred up of dollars.
Now there, now, but what if the owner didn't, this owner would have put this dog, this dog was really a basket of bones.
She's got to.
She wasn't there to, to give the signal to destroy the dog.
So is this common practice?
In other words, if you can't get word from the owner, you...
Yeah, you certainly wouldn't put them to sleep.
Um, and I can't speak for every hospital, but, but, you know, we certainly felt that what we had to do is take care of the dog and do what we have to.
Is this dog, now, this dog is still in pain, I assume.
Oh, I don't know.
He doesn't act it, or at least he doesn't act it very often.
He's, he's...
The appetite's good?
Yeah.
Urine, stool, everything checks out?
Well, you got to ask these things.
You remember when you know, you know when you're a parent, when, you remember the first time you looked for worms?
With a flashlight?
Sneak in the room?
Well, it's not sort of the same thing with what?
Why would they need a beautiful dog like that loose to get hit by a car?
That's what I want to know.
You know, this owner must be a very irresponsible owner.
I want you to meet the owner.
She's a producer for the Donahue Show.
Her name is Marlene Seelip.
Come in here, Marlene.
You're on, kid.
You're giving her a hand?
You actually did not leave the dog unattended.
No, he was attended and someone took him out for a walk.
He got loose.
He was hit.
And I was in London with the show at the time, and I called home to see how things were doing and found out the dog had been hit.
And they told me that he could walk and that nothing was broken, and I thought, well, how bad can the dog be?
When I talked to the vet, they said he needed plastic surgery, and I'd never heard of plastic surgery for an animal.
And I told the vet I didn't care what he looked like just so he could breathe.
And I came back a week later, and the dog limped into a room.
He walked actually into a wall, put his head into a wall.
He had drains coming from his stomach.
His stomach was to the ground.
He had a patch of skin over on this side that was hanging off, and I cried when I saw him because I thought, how could they have kept him alive suffering like this?
You know, I thought that was my concern.
You don't have any doubt that had you been home, you'd have destroyed the animal.
Absolutely.
Because I saw him a week after the accident, and he was in terrible shape when I saw him.
And I thought, what must he have looked like when he was hit?
But the meter is already at $1,000 now for the dog when you got home, right?
Well, it was that when I made the phone call, so I thought, you know, it's $1,000 at this point if the dog has a chance.
Right.
Now, this is not unlike all those other Solomon-esque type of agonies we have.
Now, you couldn't possibly destroy your dog.
No. No.
And I really am thankful that I waited those three days because the dog is a member of the family, and my children loved him,
and they talked about him the whole time we were gone on the trip.
And I had to tell them on the trip when I thought he was okay that he had survived.
And when I came back and was faced with the possibility of destroying him, I thought I had to go through this again with the kids.
Yeah.
Now, but your story seems to say no matter what, try and save the dog.
I think that's true.
I think it's a...
But you've got budget considerations, too, I assume.
You don't, like any other parent, you don't have the money to throw around.
Well, I think if I had been there when the dog had been hit, and I don't know this,
if I thought the dog was in decent enough shape to be saved and it was within certain limits,
I would have gone ahead to save him.
But when I saw him, he looked so bad, it was more about his pain than it was about the money at that point.
So you at first were agonized that the dog's life had been prolonged in order for him to sustain this pain.
Right.
Now...
I thought that the money didn't bother me.
I mean, I'd never spent that sort of money on a dog in my life to be, you know...
Right.
It wasn't something I anticipated.
Who wants in here? Let's get Dr. Wynn. Thanks, Marlene.
The point I wanted to make here is...
We'll leave Lucky out here. It's a good-looking animal. We'll just take Keep with it. Yeah.
A veterinarian is stuck in this situation.
The owner says, I want my animal put to sleep.
I want my animal euthanized because I can't stand to watch this animal in further pain.
Right.
The veterinarian says, wait a minute.
I've seen all kinds of animals like this recover and live beautiful, normal, healthy lives.
The owner at this point, because the animal's property, supposedly has the right to end that animal's life.
Right.
But should a veterinarian say, I'm sorry, it's against my morals and my ethics?
No. In my opinion, no. I won't do that.
The veterinarian should not say that.
The veterinarian should abide by the appliance request to put it to sleep?
I'm being Solomon now.
I think that if I want my dog destroyed and I'm the owner, that my wishes should be honored.
I'm the veterinarian. I save animals.
I went to school for eight years to learn how to save animals,
and I'm not going to end your animal's life because you think that's the right thing for it...
when I've treated animals and recovered.
Okay. Okay. Go ahead. Save the dog, but I'm not going to pay you.
That's the problem we also have.
That's where we're stuck frequently as a profession.
Client comes in and says, do everything you can, Doc, but I don't have any money.
Right. Right.
But I won't let you put him to sleep.
Right. What percentage of animals that are brought in for destruction are actually not destroyed?
What percent that are brought in for destruction?
I mean, is that a problem?
Tremendous changing trends in veterinary medicine.
Twenty years ago, when I graduated from veterinary school, a client said, put my animal to sleep.
I put it to sleep. Today, no way.
Why?
The animal rights movement, the Save the Whales, I mean, all the things we see going on in life.
Oh.
Are changing. We're seeing different people coming to veterinary school.
You're afraid that they're going to be on your case, are you?
No. Pardon?
You're afraid they're going to be on your case?
No. I don't believe in that. I believe that animals have a place in this world,
and they need to have a steward protecting their well-being as well as the owner's well-being.
I have to break here, but one more question.
Aren't a lot of these animals that are brought in for destruction turned over for animal research?
No.
No.
No. Minimal numbers actually go to research. Most of them are just, you know, they're just euthanized.
Right. Well, you're worth $1400, baby.
You bet.
And we love you, too. You're a very good dog. And we'll be back. Who's your favorite talk show host? Tell the truth.
We'll be back in just a moment.
Music
The police have even accused Phil Eisenberg of dirty campaigning and breaking state election law.
So when Phil Eisenberg throws another stone, remember where he is.
You know what really burns me up? Being lied to, being misled.
Like those TV ads against Proposition 99. 99 isn't about crime. That's ridiculous.
But the tobacco companies will say anything to stop the tobacco tax. You know why?
Because part of that 25 cent tax on cigarettes goes to teach kids the dangers of smoking.
That's why the tobacco companies want you to vote no. I'm voting yes for those kids.
So does the American Cancer Society, the Heart Association, the Lung Association. Vote yes on 99.
In the legislature, you belong to one team or the other. My team is headed by Governor Duke Majin.
We say don't raise taxes. My opponent's team is headed by Willie Brown and David Roberty.
And they'd raise your taxes twice before breakfast if they could get away with it.
Last year there was a proposal to tax Social Security. I led the fight to kill that tax.
That's one fundamental difference between me and my opponent. My team's against new taxes and his team's not.
Senator John Doolittle.
When Hoffman played the graduate, Cruz was in grade school. Now they're working side by side.
At Entertainment Tonight's got the inside story.
You said you trusted me in the car. You never called me a maniac.
No, not at all. I had to work with him.
See exclusive scenes from their new film, Rain Man, and learn what it was really like on the road with Hoffman and Cruz.
Would you be wild behind the wheel?
Yeah, you're a response.
It's the stars and the scenes you won't see anywhere else. Only on the next Entertainment Tonight, Wednesday at 730 on KCRA.
I think pets are great. Everyone should have one. It's the only love money can buy.
I think that if you have a child, you don't put a value on it. If the child needs an operation, you don't care what it costs.
So if you have a pet and you have it for several years and you care about that pet, you really can't put a value on it.
No, you can't. But sometimes you do have to make judgments based upon priorities.
You know, with the respectful bow to Jewish tradition, I mean, if you've only got a couple of bucks left and the baby needs shoes.
If the dog has a chance of surviving or the cat or any other, how can you possibly let the dog die?
If you don't have the $1,400.
If you have a child, how can you not?
Oh, you're not helping me?
Well, that's why you do the most humane thing. I mean, some people are careless enough that then they just toss the animal out.
They do. They do.
With our far too many examples of that. I'm glad you waited. Hi.
Hi. I just wanted to say that I think people really tend to underestimate how close we get to pets.
I know I have trouble trusting people and letting them get close to me, but I get so close to my pets more than any person ever has.
You're a single person?
Yes, I am.
How old are you?
I'm 24.
And how many pets do you have?
Right now I have one cat, but I had a rabbit before I got my cat, and he went through problems and had to have an operation.
It turned out to be needless because the vet misdiagnosed a common problem.
And I remember I was going through agony, and the vet patronized me about, you know, I tried to understand exactly what was going on on the EMT,
and I understand with people, so I would have been able to help the pet.
But he wouldn't let me get involved in what was going on, and it just made the whole situation worse.
He totally underestimated how close we were.
Right. You mean this is with your rabbit?
Yeah.
Did your rabbit die of whatever ailment?
He ended up dying in the end.
Uh-huh. And what was wrong with your rabbit?
I forget the exact name, but they get bacteria in the ear canal that throws off their balance, and sometimes that spreads through the body.
What's the name of that?
How is the middle ear infection related to ear canker or ear infection?
Right. Let me understand this young woman. People kind of snicker, didn't they, at you?
Yeah, they did.
You were too, you're too much of an adult to be this attached to a rabbit.
Exactly.
And you're saying that's, first of all, it's none of your business.
Second of all, I want you to know that I am attached.
And third, you have a responsibility to respect this relationship I have with this rabbit.
More attached than I could ever be to a person, I think.
Uh-huh. And the cat has only partially replaced the void, then, is that it?
Well, he'll never replace the void, but I have my own special relationship with the cat.
Traditionally, that's been a problem in veterinary medicine, that is, the veterinarian's lack of understanding of that bonding relationship.
And one of the major changes we've seen in the last 10, 15 years is that 75 percent of our profession is now women.
We're bringing in tremendous numbers of women who have a lot more sensitivity than people who grew up on a farm, as I did 20 years ago.
And I think you're going to see veterinarians today who have a more understanding relationship of that relationship.
More about the insurance.
Yeah.
About the insurance, like on a dog. We don't know. I don't think people know enough about what the insurance costs.
How much?
Pet health insurance can vary from, with a $40 deductible plan, $29, as little as $29 a year for a young, less than one-year-old animal,
to up to $159 a year for a 14-year-old animal.
Are you there?
It's affordable.
Glad you called. Go ahead.
Hi. I'm a fourth-year veterinary student, and I just wanted to say that I think it's about time that people recognize animals
for just being owned by people and that they do offer people a lot of companionship.
Right. How far are you from the degree?
Seven months. In May.
Yeah. Do you think you should be able to be, should people be able to sue you if they think you're guilty of negligence?
Absolutely. But I think there's got to be a better way than the medical profession does it because it's totally out of hand.
Compensation is not paying your lawyer a million dollars.
In other words, you don't want it to pay outrageous malpractice, then?
I don't mind the malpractice if I deserve it. I just don't, I think when you get compensated, it's to go to the people.
And I think once it gets in the profession, into the hands of the lawyers, it becomes a whole different ballgame, as it has in medical malpractice.
Right. But the lawyers only get a third.
Yeah, but a third can be a lot of money.
Well, these guys are telling you they're putting a lot of work in it.
Lawyers do not take these type of cases?
Well, obviously, you have to look at the side of it from the, well, let's look at the side of it from the veterinarian.
We pay, I pay $20,000 a year to go to school. I put a lot of work into it, too.
If I do something wrong, I don't mind getting my wrist slapped. I don't mind having my license revoked.
Okay, but let me tell you something. Lawyers do not take these types of cases on a contingency basis.
The lawyers in the field that do this charge hourly like every other lawyer does for a commercial case.
And we'll be back in just a moment.
Jello Pudding celebrates 15 fun years with Bill Cosby and Kids.
I had this friend, Old Weird Harold, you know, and Old Weird Harold always told me,
I want to be a boy with Jello Pudding. And I said, why? He said, because then all the kids will love me.
Jello Pudding, the fun part of being a kid.
Old Weird Harold, if you're in there, you sure are terrific.
And I've been driving over 45 years and I haven't had a ticket since VE Day.
I'm a good driver and I think I've earned my good driver discount.
That's why I don't think it's fair that Props 100 and 103 make older people pay the same auto insurance as teenage drivers.
Props 100 and 103 say that my age doesn't matter.
But I just don't think it's fair to make older drivers pay more.
Guess who's got the lowest grocery prices in town?
Guess again.
Pack and Save. You can't get groceries for less.
When luckies compared prices, there's something they didn't show you.
Pack and Save. You can't get groceries for less.
If you're still shopping at luckies, we've got a question.
Why?
Pack and Save. You can't get groceries for less.
There's been an unpleasant ugliness in this year's campaign.
Voters have been treated contemptuously, not as partners in the greatest democracy on earth.
It's time to say enough is enough.
In my own words, this is what I'm for.
I have to invest in education so every kid has an opportunity.
I believe it's wrong to cut Social Security.
It's a disgrace 37 million Americans have no health insurance.
I believe we have to crack down on toxic polluters.
And those are the issues we should be talking about in 1988.
Channel 3 reports, news headlines.
This is Tip Kendall reporting live from Newcastle, where hundreds of residents remain evacuated
while crews from a hazardous materials team remove toxic chemicals spilled this morning
during the derailment of a Southern Pacific freight train.
We'll have a complete report in about 15 minutes on Channel 3 reports at 5.
I want to say that my husband and I have been on a four-week vacation,
and before we left on our trip we made arrangements with our vet.
We have six animals, three cats, three dogs, and if anything happens to them,
we have to take care of them. We'll pay them when we get home.
Would you allow him to destroy any of your animals if he thought it appropriate
without your advice and counsel?
Only at the last resort.
But he does have that freedom, doesn't he?
I believe he knows us well enough to do that, yes.
Let me ask Dr. Maritato, who's here with Lucky Marlene's dog,
who almost went to dog heaven, but here he is.
Have you ever had a person bring in a healthy dog to be destroyed?
Yes, I mean it's a relatively infrequent event.
The hospital I work at has a policy of not putting them to sleep,
and we just explain that to the owner.
What's the one host for show, my baby?
What's the read on that?
One common problem occurs when people die and they figure no one's going to take care of Fido as well as I did,
so in my will I leave Fido to go to the vet and be put to sleep.
Do you honor the will?
You're not a veterinarian, I don't know, do you?
Well, that case was tested in California, the San Francisco SPCA case.
They refused to honor the will.
Refused to honor the will, ultimately a state legislative act was passed,
and ultimately the court agreed not to euthanize the animal.
Really?
So you can't leave it in your will to destroy your dog.
You can, and it's done all the time.
You can, but it doesn't work.
It does almost all the time.
But in California, unless it's challenged because someone is willing to adopt that animal,
then they say the wishes of the owner, had she or he known this, would have been different,
and therefore they'll know the will and they'll adopt the animal.
What was the nature of the legislation in California?
Oh, they were worried that the court wasn't going to interpret this case properly in the time frame.
But one dog may not be destroyed.
Sacramento saved one dog.
Saved one dog with state legislation.
I wonder what the vote was.
Can you imagine voting against that?
Uh-huh, now let's get this straight then, so if you feel that your dog cannot possibly live happily after you're gone,
and you precede your animal in death, and you put in your will that you want your dog destroyed after you die,
almost always the line of the way.
It almost always happens because nobody finds out.
It happens as soon as you die.
But the SPCA would be in on that in a minute.
If they find out, they'll try to stop it sometimes.
I want to know how long ago was the dog, and Lucky was hit.
How long ago is Lucky's?
We were in England six weeks ago.
You imagine that?
You must be very proud of your work here, Doctor.
Well, I'm a veterinarian, and I think it's pretty sad, bringing back the caller's remark,
about the fact that you spent all this money to go to school, you spent all this time in school,
and you're dedicating your life to taking care of animals, and it's too bad that it comes to a monetarily,
where the courts have to decide.
That's what I mean.
I agree. I think people should sue a veterinarian if you've been negligent,
and I think it's too bad that the veterinarians are coming to a dog laying on a heating pad.
There's no excuse for it.
No, there isn't. There isn't.
You worked for a vet, you told me, during the commercial.
That's how come I know that?
Sometimes they're going in empty handed.
They don't know.
A person can tell you what's wrong with them, a dog can't.
And your point then would be what?
Would be sometimes they can be helped if you...
Oh, I see. You're glad they saved this dog.
Yeah, but some of them can't save, regardless of what you do.
You're impressed then with the miracles you're able to perform there, is that it?
Yeah, but some of them can't be saved.
But if the owner wants you to do everything you can, you do.
Yes, of course.
And if the owner wants you to destroy the dog, you do that.
Well, you have to... yeah, that's a person's decision. That's their own person.
But if the owner decides, then you must accommodate the owner's wishes.
Well, I'm not a veterinarian, but assistant-wise, I believe that you have to go by their...
There's no legal requirement that the veterinarian honor that owner's request to put that animal down.
Really?
You don't have to abide by that. There's no written law that says you must.
And if you morally feel that's unjustified, I think a veterinarian has to explain and educate the owner.
In this case, a good example. We can have a normal, healthy dog living there.
And we'll be back in a moment.
I want an America that's in charge of its own future.
That has control of its own destiny.
Not a country that is selling off its land and its assets piece by piece to foreign interests.
I want an America that exports its products, not its jobs.
I want to give every American a chance to build a better life.
That's what being president is all about.
Any supermarket can make it look like it has lower prices simply by comparing itself on a short list of items with other supermarkets.
That's why Lucky compared not 50, not 100, but over 500 items at Lucky, Safeway, Rayleigh's, and Albertsons.
With savings up to 8%, there is total proof Lucky is lowest.
And in every department, every day, every week, Lucky promises we will continue to be the low price leader.
Proposition 99 will punish smokers. If you're prejudiced against them, that might make you feel good.
But prejudice is what Prop 99 is really about.
You see, Prop 99 doesn't tax tobacco companies. It taxes people because of their choice of lifestyle.
In America, especially California, we just don't do that. And let's hope to God it never comes to that.
On Election Day, vote no on prejudice. Vote no on Proposition 99.
We can keep America strong so peace is secure. We can make America drug free and cut crime in half.
We can keep producing jobs with child care at a pace the world has never seen before.
We can cut spending for the less important things to hasten the cure for AIDS, Alzheimer's, and breast cancer.
America is the best country in the world, but we can make it better.
Dude, and some won and some didn't. Is malpractice crisis coming to the veterinary medicine industry? Hi. Go ahead.
Phil?
Yeah.
I've been listening to the program and I just have a statement I want to make or a comment.
I have loved many pets who have died and I've cried. I've lost time for more.
But I think we've got to put things into perspective.
A pet that you love, nine times out of ten, everybody I know has replaced that pet.
I have a sister who is diagnosed with cancer. One of these days soon she may die.
That is somebody I cannot replace. We have to put it into perspective.
Yes, but these people feel the same. You agree with this?
The applause is coming from non-pet owners.
You've never lost a pet.
Well, I'm concerned about the fees. I'm wondering whether an individual can get a vet discipline without suing
because I'm wondering if the rates are going to go up if the vets get sued.
They can, by the way, by reporting them to the State's Department of Registration.
What moves you to do this since there's no money in it?
A love of animals, a caring, and an ability to go out there and help people who haven't had the ability to help themselves in the past.
I'd like to ask the attorney if there are cases where vets lose their licenses due to these lawsuits.
Very, very small number.
Does anyone ever get a second opinion?
Yes.
I just think people should stop using the phrase puts asleep.
Explaining death to children is hard enough without that confusion.
Don't use euphemism. Be honest. I think I understand your point. Yes, without much time.
The man with the parrot and the dog that was burned, did you replace your pet?
Yes.
Did you get another macaw?
Yes, I've been replacing it.
But you're still grieving over the loss of the first one.
Of course.
And we'll be back in just a moment.
Music
Hey, honey, how are those sandwiches?
Okay, but I'm out of America with.
Hi, Paul.
I'm out.
I gotta go.
A sandwich just isn't a sandwich without the tangy zip of Miracle Whip salad dressing.
Not a bad bluff.
If you have a cold and take Sudafed, there's something you should know.
Answer!
Contact 12-hour caplet, stop the sneezing and runny nose that Sudafed can't.
Gesundheit.
Until there's a cure, there's contact.
Bring it back, what we had in the first place.
Bring it back, bring back safety in the workplace.
Is it too much to ask?
Safety in the workplace.
Let's bring it back, bring back safety in the workplace.
Somewhere in all these dusty law books, a great idea got lost.
The idea that law is for people and people should be able to afford it.
At Hyatt Legal Services, we took the fear out of legal fees.
You can consult with one of our lawyers for just $20.
And for cases like divorce, wills, accidents and bankruptcy, we tell you our fee up front.
I'm Joel Hyatt and you have my word on it.
We took the fear out of legal fees across the country and in your neighborhood.
This week on Public People, Private Lives, Kitty Dukakis discusses her painful drug addiction.
I didn't want to hurt Michael politically.
But I was also frightened for myself.
And Willard Scott gives us his own secret formula for success.
I'm 54 years old, I have no talent, I'm bald-headed, I'm overweight and I'm a star.
All this plus Marlee Meplin.
I went to sign when I was five, so I spoke before that.
On the next Public People, Private Lives.
Tonight at 9 on Channel 3.
Did you see what I've got here? I want you to shake my hand.
That's my baby. That's my baby. There you go.
There you go. There you go.
There's another one. I'm the one for lucky.
Look at this. Well, I go on the road with this animal.
You're a good boy. One more time.
Alright, show them you can do it there.
See that? I'll tell you, I have a way with that.
Yes. Good boy. Yes ma'am.
I want to find out if owners will compensate us to the degree of the mouth practice or depending on the breed of the dog.
Pain and suffering.
Pain and suffering.
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I want to ask veterinarians, in the case of humans related to dogs, how much is too much to keep a dog alive?