to be white. Is that how you see it?
Yeah, I think that's a real neat analogy.
I am who I am and I think...
The problem is with the other people.
Yeah, well, yeah, I guess so. I really hate to toss flame around.
But I think that we all have certain qualities and perhaps liabilities
that we're given to deal with, you know, maybe to set an example, maybe to enlighten someone else.
And I really haven't caused anyone else any pain or injury just by walking around being myself.
I've been accused of taking up too much space and my answer is,
then move over, get out of my way.
Yeah. But I think your heart has to work harder.
See, that's how basic... It doesn't make me right.
But you, obviously, you could walk 15 feet and your numbers are going to go up.
Your upper respiratory system is going to have to work harder than the normal, than the average person would.
And the result is that your heart will literally get tired sooner than...
Yeah, so physiologically, I've put a much greater strain on myself with all the dieting and the surgeries that I've put myself through also.
I had my blood pressure taken on Friday when I went to the doctor who said,
Hi, how are you feeling? Not high. Why are you fat?
And my blood pressure was 110 over 80, which is like normal for me.
I'll give you his name and address if you don't believe it.
No, we believe it. You are next to Charles Williams.
Mr. Williams once weighed 373 pounds.
Do we have a before? We do. Let's see, Mr. Williams.
Boy, you were some kind of giant there, Charles.
You lost, look at that, you lost 188 pounds.
You do not believe a fat person can be happy. Is that so?
That's correct. Well, talk to Susan.
Well, I think I had an opportunity to kind of talk to Susan Clark to the show.
And I think you have to understand when you say happiness, because even at this size, I'm not totally happy,
because there's some other levels of thought process that I'm trying to reach spiritually.
I think that she's happy because she decided that's what she wants to be.
But I think that she realizes that there's some medical problems being that size.
That's what really motivated me.
I had the opposite problem than Walter. I couldn't control my bowel.
I really, I could walk down the street, I could be speaking at a school and my bowels would move.
I had, literally had trouble going to the restroom and cleaning myself, you know what I mean?
I really just couldn't do it. I mean, that really tormented me.
And then I actually psychologically believed that I was smaller than I really was.
When I found out I was 373 pounds, I cried, because I had to be weighed in a hospital in the garage
rather than the room. And that's when it just said to me, I said, Lord, I have the will if you give me the strength.
Now how do you explain that, Susan, you certainly are not surprised at her, the agony that she tells us.
She sustained with the yo-yo and going up and oh, am I thin and looking in the mirror and not really losing as much as you hoped.
And then you gain it back and then you look at the, not like an alcoholic, all this craving made her nuts,
made her unhappy and worse. How come you didn't have that?
Well, because I have been this size just a year and statistics dictate that 90%,
more than 90% of the people who lose weight gain it back.
Well, that's constantly in my mind. I can relate to how Susan feels, but you know, I can say that I just have a greater strength and desire
that I want to be among that 10% who kept it all and I'm just determined that I can do it.
And I'm not going to let anything turn me around.
And to that, Susan Mason says, good for you, child, whatever makes you happy is fine with you, but what?
No, buts. We discussed this before. It's absolutely the issue that he mentioned.
Happiness is different things to different people, number one.
And number two, I made this decision for myself. I don't make this decision for other fat people.
I've made this decision only for myself.
Do you have one recurring sin that you commit in the kitchen more often than others? Is it chocolate eclairs? What is it?
No, no it isn't. It's telling my husband I forgot to defrost something and we're going to have to call out again.
No, I am not a compulsive eater. I don't have that kind of weakness because I learned,
I learned with everything that I've been through that I really didn't have to deny myself and with learning to not deny myself what it was that I wanted,
I found out that I wasn't so compulsive that I could have what I want and not have to have the whole thing and not have to get crazy about it and not have to be obsessed by food.
David Allen is here. You are likewise an MD, Dr. Allen. You're a psychologist. You're a weight loss counselor. Boy, are we looking for you.
You are also going to assist or work with Mr. Hudson who as we've seen here is the thousand pound chap in the company of Dick Gregory from his home across Long Island Sound.
They are in Hebstead. We are in Stamford and we can probably wave at you on a clear day.
Behavior mod is needed you say for overweight people exercise. First of all, give me your first thoughts about these two.
People. I thought you were searching for a word. I'm sorry.
Profile is what I mean in the sense of the kind of work he does. I wasn't being critical. I just want to help.
Thank you. I promise you I can use it all the time. What are these are two different psychiatric profiles in a sense. Are they not?
Well, psychological. You know, first of all, with with Susan, I feel very good about where she's at because she's come to a point where she accepts herself.
So she loves herself. That's why she can honestly say that she's happy. OK.
Doesn't mean that she may not want to lose weight. She probably still does.
But she's come to accept where she's at. And that's great. With my brother here, you know, I just feel that, you know, Charles is at a point where he wants to keep growing.
He does not want to regress when one out of every six people that lose weight gain that weight back within a three year period.
So I think that both of them are in good space right now. I'm a little long. We do have to break. But before we do, what are you going to do with Charles or with Mr. Hudson?
OK. With with Charles, I'm looking at a total approach. You know, first of all, Walter, I'm sorry, Walter.
You know, we're talking about diet in time, as Dick said, an exercise program and then behavioral change.
Getting him. Well, getting him to understand maybe why he's he's like he is, letting him begin to point out the food that he eats, you know, what those foods might be doing to him physically.
And then the key thing here is getting him to understand that he can understand his brain and how to run his brain more effectively. How does he think?
You know, is it your thing better? Can he keep that weight off? And that's one thing we do teach him how to think more effectively.
You know, we think verbally and we think she wonders about bed sores and so do all of us. Pardon this invasion of your privacy. How can you possibly be reclined like that for this prolonged period of time without having a a response from your body and your skin?
Well, so far, I seem to be lucky because I haven't had any bad sores. You know, I must be luck or something, you know.
And yes, I hear you. Yes. Hang on a minute, Dick. I like to know who afforded all this food for you all these years, 17 years in a bed. And you haven't done anything with your life. Somebody supporting you. Who would do that?
Who supported me with my food? Yeah.
This audience at least has a curiosity about the cost of having kept you alive at this size all these years.
Well, the food I get is I support myself and...
How?
How? Oh, well, just supplement the income.
Are you on welfare, Walter?
Yes, SSI.
A disability?
Yes. I mean, my family helps me out some, too, you know, with my...
Obviously, your disability claim has to do with your size, right?
Yes. Yes, it does.
Yeah. Yeah. Walter, I'll tell you this. They are very, very curious about you and I want you to know they're real nice people here in Connecticut and they want you to be thin and well. They also want you to be whatever you want to be, just like Susan. Yes.
I saw Walter on the news and when I saw a picture of him, I felt really sad and I want to wonder how your family, if they loved you, how'd they let you get like that? At six years old, you said you started overeating.
How could they let you get like that? I have two kids and I watch their diet and I, you know, I feel sorry for you. I really feel sad.
Well, the way I got like this is on my own from eating, overeating. It's like an alcoholic over drink, addict take needles, your drugs. It's the same thing. So that's the same thing I've done. I overeat. That's a problem. It's a habit.
You don't consume alcohol, do you, Walter?
No, I don't.
So your addiction is food.
That's right. Food.
What would you have at a normal dinner?
A normal dinner?
Yeah.
What I used to have was, I'd say a chicken and a half, smashed potatoes, baked macaroni, stuffed candy yams, screened beans, then for dessert cake.
Well, they want to know quantity. How many potatoes?
How many potatoes? Smashed potatoes, I'll say three cups. Baked macaroni, I don't know, was a large spoonful.
A chicken and a half, he says.
A chicken and a half.
Yes, ma'am.
My question is to either the doctors. How long is this process going to take for Walter, either to get out of his house, into a doctor's care, or how long is it going to be, show, when he loses some weight?
He has three million plus extra calories. And to get rid of those calories will take, to bring him down to 200 pounds will take about three and a half years.
Now, to get down to a level where he can walk out of the house is a shorter period, maybe a year, I would think, or maybe even shorter than that.
Yes, ma'am.
I'd just like to know, Walter, how do you stay clean and wash, and who, you know, who washes you and what have you?
Well, I've been lucky so far. I've been able to wash myself.
You've been able to wash your feet and the lower part of your body?
Well, my feet, I have maybe my knees and then to wash my feet. But, like, I'll wrap a washcloth around a stick and wash myself.
Right.
Have you ever had surgery, Walter?
No, never. Never.
Yeah.
What did you have for breakfast today, Walter?
Today I had fruit. And I didn't know fruit tasted that good.
Two questions. Does that mean if he had fruit? Walter, did you start your diet already?
I can't hear you.
Dick, maybe you want to jump in here. I assume the diet is already underway. Is that right?
The diet is already underway. This is the second week now. And what we've done, we've eliminated all the sugar, all the bread, and we've increased the sugar, increased the fruit.
The most important thing, he was drinking almost no water. He was drinking soda pops. We've increased his water now to about 12 glasses a day. We've eventually moved that up to 16 glasses a day.
One of the things we're fixing to do next week is have the plumbers come in and put a toilet in this room. So that whole mental problem of not wanting to go through the pain of going through the toilet.
And just let me say this. Being overweight is not a disease. It's a condition. And if you change your conditions, your lifestyle, the condition will leave. And that's what we're doing here.
Well, I can't believe. Look, here's my point. Most of us could not possibly weigh that much. This is about a cellular biochemical, it's about biology.
It may also have a lot to do with lifestyle and habits and eating out of nervousness or insecurity. Sure.
Phil, he just happened to have a perversion that shows. But if sex perversion could be shown as fat, you'd be surprised how many sitting in that audience.
What would be on the Downing Show? As guests.
Listen, what is not so funny? The conditions associated with morbid obesity, and that's the word morbid, meaning life threatening. Isn't that how we want to...
Look at this. Coronary heart disease and sudden death are... Have you got that, Brian? Somewhere on our show today.
Coronary heart disease and sudden death is just one of the results of conditions associated with morbid obesity. Look at this. Hypertension, cardiorespiratory dysfunction, thromboembolic disease, diabetes mellitus.
You caught me when I kicked this... Look at this. Hepatobiliary disease, osteoarthritis, increased operative risk, uterine fibroid and endometrial cancer, edema of the lower extremities, renal disease, skin problems, susceptibility to infection, and psychosocial incapacity.
Now let's see this next one. There are... How many adult Americans in the United States are overweight, do you know? A lot. That's the answer I would have given.
About 100 million. 34 million, it says here. 12.4% of whom are severely overweight. Those would be people with... I promise I'll get to you. I just want to break here for one second.
We're in Stamford and we're talking to people who approach the issue of their own bodies in various ways. We've talked with one woman who is heavy and says she's fine being that way and she's out of the game of yo-yo diets.
And then we are with Walter who... What do you want to get him down to? 200 pounds, Dick? I want to get him down to 190, but Phil, let me say this. While he's laying here weighing over a thousand pounds, his mother has died, he's had two brothers that have died, he's had two nephews that have died, and an aunt.
So how do you explain that? You see it now? Yeah, we see it all right. Yeah. You could sail to England with that. Excuse me, Walter is an anomaly. There's lots of people out there that have problems with their weight. Who's going to pay for Walter and how much is this going to cost and how are normal people supposed to get help? I'm sure this is going to cost a fortune to get the weight off of him. Who's paying for that?
Well, let me add to that because I think the medical system doesn't take care of overweight people in the United States. The Medicare and Medicaid don't reimburse for treatment and people who are overweight generally are in the poorer segment of society and they're the ones who can least afford to be treated.
So we don't have a system in this country to deal with this problem. It cost me over $5,000 to go through this fasting program that I was on. And I had to use every charge card that I could find, every resource I could find, but I just, you're right, this country does not, this totally ignores fat people.
I have a question for Walter. I was wondering if he ever misses being outside and if he's sorry that he's gotten so big that he can't go outside.
Do you miss being outside, Walter? Does Walter miss never having been outside? It's almost like we're looking at a feral child here. Clearly Walter is reading the paper, he's educated. I assume he has a wonderful sense of humor, but you must feel as though your life has been wasted, hasn't it, Walter?
Yes, to a point I haven't been nowhere. Matter of fact, I live in New York all my life and haven't even seen New York. I would like to see New York and America, the whole country, if possible.
No.
Yes.
And, no.
To Susan, before you said you were married and everything, add that a family. I'd like to know. I've always been married for a year and I'm not really sure, I'm not really sure that I want one at this point. I have a lot of other things that I'd like to do with my life and I haven't really set my priorities.
Is your husband heavy?
No, he's six foot two and weighs 160 pounds dripping wet and he met me as I am and fell in love with me as is. Not in spite of, I want to point that out.
I think you're, I'm sorry, this is my opinion, but I think you're disgusting. Okay?
I think that you're very sad and obviously a very narrow person.
No, I'm not. I go through diet after diet to get where I am and I still have to lose weight for the profession that I want to be. But if you're fine the way you are, great. Why don't you make a lot of...
But it's not going to be great as long as we call names at people who are heavy.
As long as it really bothers me.
You can't say, excuse me, you can't say in one moment that you find me disgusting and then the next breath tell me that you think it's just fine.
It's your happiness for yourself. I'm not happy with it for me and I'm not, I don't feel comfortable around people who are large. Okay?
I don't feel comfortable around people who are bigoted.
I'm not, but I make exceptions because you have a right to be here too.
I just think, I just think that, okay, what about like, I work in a restaurant and I have to serve people who are large and it doesn't bother me at all.
But it really bothers me when I'm near a person who is large and has excessive body odor.
Okay? If you want to come up here and sniff me honey, you're welcome to.
She smells pretty good from here. I think so too.
Yeah, yeah.
The one thing I find are people that are skinny like that girl over there are just so against people.
I mean, she's happy, I know a lot of heavy people that are very happy with themselves, happy with other people.
And then we see these girls that are skinny and are jealous of other girls and, you know, and unhappy.
The culture breeds a kind of a competition, if you think.
I think so. I think there's so many people out there that are happier because they're overweight and, you know, not worried about being skinny.
Obesity is not a moral issue.
It shouldn't be, but a lot of people make it one.
I would like to address this decision. What do you buy your clothes or do you have them made?
I have most of my clothes made at this point. I have a friend who lives in New Haven who's a designer.
And her name is Karen Scott Jones.
And she happens to design a fabulous line of clothes that I feel are flattering and appropriate for me.
One thing that you have on is very attractive.
She likes what you have on.
Thank you.
All right. And we'll be back in just a moment.
Music.