This is a first, a first for us. Every man in this audience, every single man you are
looking at in this audience, look at them all. Now they're going to try to hold their
heads down, admits that he has cheated on a wife or girlfriend he once had. Every one
of them has fooled around. Some of these men are admitting their infidelity here for the
first time, but we are not here today to hang them, although it is a thought. But instead,
we're here to find out why, why they did it in the first place. I want to introduce you
to Hank and Walter and Tom and Gary who are sitting here on home base. I'll start with
you. Hank married for 15 years and cheated many times. Why? Why? Why? Because it came
up. And so was it, was it, was it, you say things just happen. Do they just keep happening?
Not anymore. Not anymore. You finally got. No, it was just like, you know, being out
and it, it happened to happen. You know, I couldn't, you meet some girl and she likes
you, you like her and so you go and that's, you know. And that's it. But what about, because
this is what we're trying to figure out. That's why I'm not here to hang you guys up about
this, but we're trying to figure out why you do, is it just because you walk into a room
and some woman approaches you and that makes it convenient. And so, so be it. Cause what
happens to those, I will love honor and cherish you. Well, you still love your wife. You know,
you still love her, but it's like, I can't explain it. You know, like suppose when I
met you in a bar and you looked at me and I looked at you and you just gave me the eye
and I gave you the eye and you know. So it's as simple as that. It's just because, so why
get married? Well, you're married because you love that girl. And you're compatible.
And you're compatible. But I mean, doesn't, doesn't the vow mean anything is what I'm
trying to figure out. What does the vow say? Does the vow say that we will never have a
sexual relationship with another person? Is that in there? Yes, yes it is. Yes it is.
Honor and cherish and, and, and forsaking all others. You do honor and cherish and the
first in your life and, and they mean everything to you, but you, but it can happen. I mean,
it can happen in, in fact, statistically, I think that most people you've been married,
how long? 23 years. Okay. And you had an affair during the marriage? Yes, I did. And I love
my wife. My marriage was very secure, very strong. The sex was great in my marriage.
There was nothing wrong with it. I had a new job. Everything was going great. My immediate
supervisor was a woman. We got along real good and something developed between us and
we kept it, you know, not at the office, but during the lunch hour we would have our affair
and it went on for a long time. And. Went on for how long? Went on for how long? A little
over a year. A little over a year. Right. So when, how, how did you finally, did you get
caught or did you tell your wife or what? I finally told my wife, but what happened
is that I was given an ultimatum. When we started this thing, she had said that, you
know, she didn't care that I was married, that it was enough just to, you know, have
our little relationship on lunch hours and on Saturday mornings or whatever. And. This
is what the mistress said. Yeah. And I told her that I love my wife and I was very happy
with her and I was still having sex with my wife. And she said that was okay. After about
a year, she said, this is, you're going to have to make a decision here. This is too
long. And I says, well, I said, I told you, I love my wife and I'm not going to leave
her. So she had a boyfriend, a fellow that would see her once a week that he was a South
street lawyer and he had been giving her money and she hadn't worked for years and she had
taken this job and he forbid her to see anybody else. So one night they were drinking or whatever.
He suspected something and she confessed everything to him and he got real upset. He came to my
job and talked to me. When did you tell your wife? That's when I told my wife, when all
this stuff was coming down, I said, honey, I think there's something I better tell you.
And, and I, and I, so I told her first and then, you know, he put pressure on her to
tell my wife what she did and finally the whole thing came out and that was it. Your
marriage got better because of it or worse? Well, we cried, we talked, uh, and it got,
it, uh, it was strong then it's stronger now. I mean, it didn't, would you fool around again?
I don't think so. I have no intentions of doing, I didn't have any intentions then either.
Right. That's what I was going to say. Did you, did you have intentions then? And I resisted
it for a real long time, but we were together all the time. She was the, the woman I had
the affair with was an extremely sexy woman, the kind of woman that people would go up
to and tell her how beautiful she was. Men would tell her that men fantasized about her
and it just being together. Did it make you feel like you were more of a man? Uh, no,
I don't think so. It just, it was very, very exciting. It was fun. I mean, it was exciting.
It was fun. This is very interesting. So you guys break women's heart in the name of fun.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's sports. Sometimes it is sports. Yes. What
do you mean by that? Well, you know, it's, it's the, well, the thrill of victory, but
the defeat doesn't have agony. It's like sometimes there's a thrill in terms of the
hunt and the conquest and so forth and the accumulation. And you know, you put a, well,
not so much curious after a while, after you pass the age of 20 or 21, you lose curiosity
and it's a, it becomes, it becomes a challenge on one level, not, not just the sole reason
now why men cheat or why did you cheat? Well, myriad reasons. So give me three. First of
all, um, you have to understand basically the psyche that goes into what makes up a
man. When a man leaves out the door and goes to work, he basically goes to war. And when
he comes home, when a man comes home, he wants to be able to lay down the shield and lay
down the spear. But a lot of times with modern women, they want you, they want to keep the,
the game going. They want to keep you at war. And so, you know, on that level, you're looking
for a little peace and solace. On another level, women tend to seek married men out
because they're safe, you know, or there's an appearance of safety. Also men make better
friends to women than, than other women, you know, because I have a friend, David, he likes
to say that women aren't good friends and they aren't fair because they never played
team sports. You know, they never played baseball when they were, when they were young and,
and women will seek you out. And in many instances, affairs start out as friendships where women
will come to you and just want to be friends, want to have somebody to talk to and, and
have somebody to console them.
So you say it's a part of this whole war thing and you say that sex was fine, the marriage
was fine, your wife was fine, things were fine.
You love your wife, but sometimes, you know, your wife would do things to you to push you
out. But, well, not a lot of peace. And there are, there are, there are many, it exists
on many levels. I don't want to sound like I'm putting all the blame on the women because,
you know, there's a certain amount of the hound dog in all of us here. And more of us,
and more of us who do not show up today.
By the way, Johnny B, thank you very much because Johnny, Jonathan Brandmeier, who is
a very famous radio distracke here in Chicago, did a plug for us. And a lot of you here because
of it, it's a difficult thing to do to get men to admit on national television out of
the closet, to admit that they have been fooling around. So thank you, Johnny B.
Yeah.
The other thing is that I want to explain why I'm here. First of all,
I'll let you do that when we come back, okay? When we asked this audience before this show
how many of them got caught, quite a few raised their hands and the others yelled out, rookies.
We'll talk with the rookies and the veterans when we come back.
Back in a minute.
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So what we have today is an entire audience of men who have cheated on their wives or
their girlfriends in relationships that were supposedly committed relationships. An entire
audience except one man here who now says he never cheated. You wanted to say what?
Yes.
I was soul busted. Twice. And after the first time I got caught, I said to myself, I wouldn't
get caught a second time.
Were you married or?
No.
Just dating, yes.
I was a freshman in college. I was way at school. And I was living in the dorms. And
in between two rooms, you have a suite mate next door to you. And there's a bathroom between
two dorms. Well, she came in through his room and he kind of had it in for me. And I was
in bed with the girl. So she came through the bathroom. She taps me on the shoulder.
What does it feel like when you're in bed with the girl and the guy comes in? Or the
girl comes in?
The guy, please. I guess both times I got caught, each experience was different. Because it
depends on how involved you are with her. Like I just met her last week. We just started
dating. It's like, well, make another phone call. Find somebody else.
Yeah.
Well, when I did get caught, I basically got myself caught because the room was really
dark. And she came up and she taps me on the shoulder. I'm like, oh, what are you doing
here? And she's laying and the girl next to me is really quiet because she knew I had
a girlfriend. And I'm like, oh, babe, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to have this girl here.
She's like, what girl? What girl? All of a sudden she's like, she pulls the blanks and
there she is. And I said to myself, I learned from that example. I was only 19. I figured.
What'd you learn?
I learned that feelings can't-
To be more careful or to not to cheat again?
That women have feelings.
What story is this?
What did you learn?
Women have feelings too, because I admit I just thought of myself at the time because
the male libido was there and I was just trying to-
Ego.
Are you married?
No, I'm not, but I had the same situation. In college, I was at one of my fraternity
parties and I had been going out with a girl for about a little over a year. And she had
left the party and I saw another friend. And so I said, well, come up to my room. We'll
have a few drinks. And we went up and from there she ended up sleeping over. And I'll
use a code name for my girlfriend, Chewbacca. But I happened to give her a key to my bedroom,
which was a mistake. And the next morning she came over and caught me in bed with her.
And she kind of freaked out and she threw a few hangers at me and left. And I was like,
uh-oh. Well, and so then I went and called her and she wouldn't talk to me. But in the
time that I was going to go over and visit her and try and make amends, an old girlfriend
came in from Ohio and was staying in a hotel. And she said, come on over. So I went and
had lunch with her and we ended up sleeping together in the afternoon. And I called my
girlfriend at the present time, Chewbacca. And she said, if you don't get up here by
six o'clock, it's all over. So kind of pulled up my drawers and got over there and everything
worked out fine. And we had a really nice night.
But I just wanted to make the point that yes, with Chewbacca. But I just want to make the
point that you were talking about before, what women do. In my case, I would go out
a lot of times with my friends to the bars and I would have, you know, I've had three
serious relationships in the past and I would just go out with my friends and I'd see someone
that would be very pretty or attractive, talk to them, buy them a drink. And I wouldn't
find, you know.
Well, it's different. It is somewhat different because you're not married.
No, no, I wasn't married. You are. You were going to tell me.
I was.
And I've been separated as divorced from my wife for eight years. And the reason I came
on is not to reopen old wounds. It's really to try to shed some light as on why men mess
around. And I wanted to apologize, you know, to my ex-wife who was since we married and
try to bring a little dignity out of a really a very undignified circumstance and maybe
see if we can all seek some redemption.
My brother.
I don't know what's in the church.
So you're not proud of what you did?
Not really. And the reason is that, you know.
You know you're proud of what you did.
You know, there's a thrill of victory, the thrill of conquest and all of that. But see,
when you analyze it, you know, at its base, what you find is that you cause probably more
pain in your woman than you relieved in yourself. Now you may have had a lot of hidden pain
and a lot of reasons why you stepped out.
I know. And you guys who say, you know, you stepped out because she annoyed you or she
irritated you. That's ridiculous. Thank you very much.
That's ridiculous. Yes.
The reason that men or I believe anybody goes out with someone other than the person they're
committed to is it's a basic instinct that everybody has inside. Monogamy is not something
that we as human beings can practice. It's in bread and everybody.
You don't think it's possible to be monogamous?
Well, no, it is possible. But the reasons are not... People are monogamous because they
fear repercussions, either from religion or because the grief they'll get from the person
they're with or because the AIDS problems that are occurring in the country today. That's
no joke. That's true. And that stopped me cold. I've maintained two relationships in
the last three years and haven't cheated because I'm deathly afraid of dying. I don't want
to die. But aside from that...
You've maintained two.
Well, no. I had a relationship with one woman for two years and I'm just starting another
one and haven't cheated on either one.
And it's because of AIDS.
And it's basically because of AIDS, yes. But before that, before it really became a prevalent
thing, it was great to go out and meet people and, you know, do whatever it took.
Let me ask you this question. I was talking to some male friends the other day about this
very same question. Is it possible at age 25, 35, to pick someone who, when you're 79
years old, you're still going to be happy with?
I would like to think that it's possible, but I've looked inside myself for that answer.
And other than the fact that I'm afraid of dying, I don't feel it's possible physically.
I don't think it's something...
So you just control those... I mean, it doesn't mean because you get married that you're never,
ever going to be attracted to somebody again. It means you don't act on the attraction,
is what I felt.
Well, that's true. I think for the most part people have very little discipline.
That's it?
That's true.
No, definitely. I mean, it's a discipline.
Okay. Would you do it again? You might be surprised by some of the answers when we come
back. Back in a moment. Thank you.
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Every man in this room is cheated, fooled around on his wife or his girlfriend and you wanted
to make the point.
That we're not a minority.
I don't think that, I think we are the majority.
I think statistically it's been brought up that most men will cheat.
So we aren't, so there must be something wrong with the system.
If the majority of the people are not behaving the way that marriages are supposed to be
then there must be something wrong with marriage and not the people.
Not necessarily, chief.
Not necessarily?
Not necessarily.
You said there was nothing wrong with your marriage.
There is nothing wrong with my marriage and ideally I would-
Or something wrong with the idea of marriage.
There's something wrong with the idea of monogamy being, you know, going from the time you're
married to the time you die that if somebody cheats it's the most horrible, terrible thing
in the world and you must break up the marriage.
So should there be intervals, say every three years you get to cheat and go out and cheat?
I always-
Listen, this guy back here, this guy back here that says he's never cheated, he's the
only one that I know has never cheated.
Who has never cheated?
Really?
I always thought-
I know anybody who's never cheated.
What do you say?
I know a lot of men don't cheat and not just out of fear.
A lot of men, you know, have that strength and conviction.
A lot of men have the character and integrity not to do it.
But wait a minute, it's not-
That's right!
Oprah, Oprah, it's not, it's really not integrity or character.
I mean because it's a bipartisan activity.
Dwight Algenhauer apparently had Kaye Somerall and John Kennedy, you know, had his several.
And now I don't want anybody calling up and saying, yeah, but you're no JFK, I know about
JFK, you're no JFK.
But it's a bipartisan activity.
If it's not character, what is it?
What part about John Kennedy's character or Dwight Algenhauer's character do you question
though?
I mean there are several-
If that is indeed true, I question the fact they're fooling around on their wife.
Well, but-
And what is the reason?
What is the reason?
Yes, yes.
Okay.
All right.
The way society has it, it's like a man waiting in a woman's eye, a man is going to be a man.
Okay?
That's right.
And-
What does that mean?
Okay, Oprah, okay.
What does that mean?
Senate.
I would like to say women as a whole, excuse me, women as a whole, you are your worst enemies.
You understand what I mean?
No, I don't.
Okay, let me elaborate.
You are your worst enemy.
Women hate other women.
And we as men, we take advantage of that.
Why?
Well, I applaud because women do hate each other.
I mean, okay, for instance, I agree with what he said.
I agree how he started off-
So what does that have to do with your ability to take advantage of women?
Because women dislike women, if that's what you said.
Because they're vulnerable.
Mm-hmm.
Very vulnerable.
That's what he said.
You walk into a bar, I mean, she throws you a sassy look, and of course, you'll throw
one back because if you're, I mean, don't be stupid.
Good looking girl, look at her.
You're just gonna go like this.
I look at a girl in a bar, and if she throws me a sassy look, of course, I'm gonna throw
one back.
And more likely something's gonna come out of it.
And it makes no difference if you're already in a committed relationship because you're
obviously not married, right?
No.
Okay.
So you're with a woman, you're dating, you care about her, she cares about you, you've
said all those I love you words and all those intimacies you've shared, but if you see somebody
else, so be it.
I've been dating a girl for the last year.
We're coming up on a year next week.
It's on my birthday also.
And I love the woman.
I love her very deeply.
I haven't messed around, but in my past-
What are you doing here?
Pulling my guts.
But in the past, of course-
Everybody gets on camera.
There was one episode I went out and she-
This woman you love that you love very dearly and your year anniversary's coming up on your
birthday.
If you were in a bar and ran across somebody who was sassy or sexy or whatever and she
gave you a look and you gave her a look, would that mean this girl's out?
I'd give her a look.
I wouldn't take her home.
Oh, sure.
Motel, though.
In today's world, it is so unsafe to do it.
I mean, I don't care what the doctors say.
I will not take someone home from a bar.
I meet a girl in a bar, I mean, what is she doing in there?
I mean, she's in there having a kytail, but she's sitting there by herself and she throws
you a sassy look.
I mean, that's not the type of woman 30 years from now, oh yeah, my wife and myself.
What if you meet her in the library?
That's a good question, Hank.
What if you meet her in the library?
Depends what she's studying, I guess.
What type of studies?
If you meet her in the bar, why would you be at the bar, though?
Yeah, you're at the same bar.
You're going for the same reasons she's going.
I'm in the bar for two reasons.
Maybe it's after work and I'm tired and I want to have a kytail.
Okay?
Or I'm going there to have dinner and read the paper, maybe the Christian Science Monitor
or something.
What if she's there for the same reason?
I'm a good boy.
What's the point you wanted to make?
What's your point?
Yes.
They're just there.
You know why they're there, they're there to pick us up, but we're there to pick them
up too, I feel.
I'm not categorizing.
Yeah, you wanted to say what?
Yes.
Well, I'm presently married and separated and I had a relationship with a girl a few
years ago that my wife found out about in a roundabout way and she was sort of upset
at the first off of it.
But it seemed to bring us more together because of the fact that my wife was not taking care
of me as a man.
She was giving me the proper respect and what I needed and as a result of all of that, I
did find it easy to go out with another woman.
When you say not taking care of you as a man, what does that mean?
Sex?
It means sex, it means respect, it means everything that goes along with being married and if
you're going to be cheated on or if you're cheating against your husband, your husband
will cheat against you.
It just stands to reason that that's the way that it's going to be and there's a trust
factor that you try and instill with each other when you first get married but you can't
follow up on trust after your trust has been violated.
You say what?
Yes.
Yeah.
Marriage is the only legal sexual relationship there is.
I mean it is the only, legally, that is the only choice we have is to get married and
have a relationship with one person.
So there are no provisions in our society for other types of relationships legally.
And so Gary, you lived with a woman for what?
How long?
Four years.
And she cheated on you?
Well the first year was great, sex was great, everything was great.
Second and third year I went off five times on her.
She stuck with me.
Yeah, she really loved me and I knew that come the fourth year so I started to turn
things around.
Well at that time she did what I did about six months down the road, she was fooling
around and it finally broke up about, it made me do it.
Yeah, what made you do it?
If it was so fine in the first, you know, for the first five years.
Yeah, if everything was fine.
It was fine.
Did it make you feel neglected or what?
Yeah basically it wasn't the same as it was.
It wasn't that spark when I come in the door.
When I came in the door it was, it started to be a fight.
Things just started to fall apart and I wasn't married.
I just got out of a relationship and I blew it, I blew it, I started feeling neglected
and that's why I did it.
And I got caught at it.
But it's, I wasn't really ashamed about what I did though.
You weren't why?
I wasn't because I was more or less driven to it.
The woman twisted my mind.
She went...
Some men just do it for the woman.
The woman twisted your mind?
Yeah.
Alright now, how would you like it man?
When you, when, let's say you're on the other line.
When you call up your girlfriend, alright, now you're on the other line.
She's talking to a friend of yours and then all of a sudden she thinks she switched back
to the other line.
She says, oh the dickhead's on the other line.
I mean what kind of stuff is that?
You don't need that stuff.
So why didn't you just leave her?
Well I did, I did.
I went off and I went with somebody else.
When she found out a bit, she tried to make me feel like the bad guy.
Now I can't feel like, why should I feel bad about it?
Like I said, I'm not ashamed of what I did.
Okay.
I thought it was justified.
Alright, if a man cheats, should he tell you or lie about it?
An expert on infidelity, the only man in the room who hasn't cheated when we come back.
Back in a moment.
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Did you pay any income tax last year?
If you did, then you paid more than General Motors, even though they made over $2 billion.
You also paid more than millionaires who use fancy tax loopholes.
I want to go to the Senate to close those loopholes.
Pete Wilson doesn't agree.
He voted to make middle class families pay more taxes so that people making over $200,000
a year could pay less.
The corporations and millionaires are supporting Pete Wilson.
I need your support.
My next guest, we have an audience of men who have all cheated on their wives or their
girlfriends.
My next guest is the only man in this room who hasn't cheated.
Dr. Frank Pittman is the author of Private Lies, Infidelity and the Betrayal of Intimacy
due out in bookstores in January.
Dr. Pittman is a psychiatrist and family therapist in Atlanta.
We're glad to have you join us with all of our cheating men.
You were saying what to him during the break?
I was telling him during the break, he said that he's never cheated in his life.
I'm a parent now and when you're growing up, the mother and father say, hey, how can you
tell me what to do when I've done it before?
Learn from my mistake.
I got a little girl, okay, and yeah, I cheated.
Now how can I tell her not to do it or about it if I've never done it?
You said you're an expert.
That's a ridiculous question.
No, no, no.
He's an expert, right?
That's ridiculous.
He's an expert, right?
So do you need to take drugs to tell your kid not to take drugs?
No.
You can take it to find out what it'll do to you.
Curiosity.
Do not.
Curiosity.
You do not.
Curiosity.
You do not.
How can you question an opinion on something that you don't know exactly about?
Because you see other people's lives being destroyed by you.
You do not.
I don't buy into that.
That's in the instance of drugs, but in the instance like he's saying.
You're voicing your opinion on something that you don't know about yourself.
You're just taking someone else's word for it.
Would you let the doctor speak?
Thank you.
Okay.
Yes.
Okay.
My grandfather was an undertaker before he died.
He'd never died before.
He was an expert at what he was doing.
So I get... It's a point worth making though.
How do you know that men shouldn't cheat and how can you advise men on cheating if you've
never done it?
I might have cheated.
If I hadn't been in the business of working with marriages, of seeing what happened to
people who did, I might have done it myself.
Everybody has the same temptations.
Everybody's faced with the fact that this is a very sexually overcharged world.
We're all scared of women.
All men grow up being afraid of women and I think all women grow up being afraid of
men.
I disagree.
I do not agree with that.
I'm not afraid of any woman, okay?
I mean, if she's there, she's just there and I'll just be right along with her.
Yeah.
Don't be afraid of her.
What do you mean by that, doctor, though?
I think there are a lot of men who are not afraid of sex.
Right.
I'm afraid of women.
Which is the difference between being afraid of sex and intimacy and commitment.
You know that.
Yes.
That is a nice little word.
I'd venture to say nobody in this room is afraid of sex, but a lot of you are afraid
of intimacy.
I would venture to say that.
And commitment.
No, no, no, no.
Oh, no, no.
Stand up, stand up.
What it is, is they're afraid that the woman's going to possess them.
Uh-huh.
That's good.
Yeah, that's good.
What do you mean by that?
Make them do everything that they want them to do.
Lead the straight and narrow life.
Don't do anything wrong.
Live for them.
Obviously.
And it doesn't happen.
And so, he said what it is, fear of possession.
Yep.
Basically.
Yes.
Why?
What are you saying?
I think it's more a fear of the commitment, you know, because that's a vulnerable feeling,
having to be with someone and treat them right all the time.
No.
No, I don't think so.
Men live for images also.
Point is, you know, being a man, I've been in that position before.
I've cheated, but there's a lot of reasons for doing it.
And the reason why a lot of us do it, and they don't want to admit it, of course, is
because of the fact that they're not getting what they want out of that relationship.
And then a lot of them do not want to call off the relationship.
I'll let the doctor speak when we come back.
Because I would venture to say, you guys are the kind of, if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't
be in the talk show business, because you're the guys that drive women on this show who've
been fooled around on and messed over and abused.
Yes, you are.
And I would venture to say that a lot of you don't even know what you want.
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So yeah, you wanted to make the point.
I said, I've been to say a lot of people don't know, a lot of men don't know what they want.
A lot of women don't know what they want either.
So in response to what you had just said about, you know, sometimes she's not giving you what you want.
If you ask a man what he wants, he can't even articulate what he wants for the most part.
You wanted to say?
Please, please.
Please.
I'm going to elaborate on the gentleman's story over there.
I was in a relationship for 13 years.
It was a beautiful relationship.
But as I pointed out before, I know what I want.
I know.
What?
I have no insecurities about myself whatsoever.
What do you want?
What I want, I want a woman who is trustworthy.
I want a woman who would just say, hello, I love you.
How would you like to be in a relationship for 13 years in which this person have never told you that she loved you?
Unless she just laughed.
And her job is more important.
But you have to understand, as we men are, we tend to be overbearing.
Why would you stay in a relationship with someone for 13 years?
I'm out of that relationship.
And I, huh, yes, I am definitely out of it.
Huh, I understand.
And as I pointed out before, as I pointed out before, you women are your worst enemies.
And that's all too.
But that's it in a nutshell.
You are your worst enemy.
Okay, call her.
You say what?
Hello?
Hi, Oprah.
This is not funny.
Everybody in the room is laughing.
I don't want to believe it.
No, these people are animals.
Completely and fully animals.
This isn't funny.
I haven't heard one intelligent reason why you actually cheat.
Oh, women hate women.
What does that have to do with anything?
When all is cut and done, when you cut the bull and everything is set out, the bottom line is that not one person in here, when they got married, said love, honor, and cheat.
Okay, everybody said they were going to stay together.
Now listen, hold on.
Let him finish.
Go ahead.
All right.
What had happened is that in that relationship, you had a commitment from whoever you were with.
They said, I will do a certain thing.
They had guidelines that you took.
All right.
Well, obviously, they fell out of those guidelines because they weren't giving you what you wanted.
So you know what?
You went and found it somewhere else.
So it's just as much the women's fault as the Mr. Dice.
But over another day, if you can't do that, we'll be gone.
Wait a minute.
Let the caller finish and then Dr. R. let you speak.
What did you say, caller?
I just think that this is ridiculous.
This isn't funny.
This is not something, oh, slap him on the back.
Yeah, but you did good.
You cheated on her.
They walk into a bar.
Oh, she gives me sassy eyes, so I got to give her sassy eyes back.
No, that's bull.
That's complete bull.
You don't do that.
If you're married, even if you have a steady girlfriend.
Women are so emotional.
They hurt so much more than I do.
Have you ever cheated?
Oh, oh, oh.
Oh, bro, I'd like to give her a spot.
Have you ever, caller, he wants to know.
Caller, he wants to know if you've ever cheated.
No, I've never cheated.
I've been married for two years.
What about when you were in college?
I was very happy.
Caller, he wants to know if you've ever cheated.
What about when you, what did you say?
When she was engaged, before she got married.
Still.
Caller, he wants to know if you cheated when you were engaged.
No, never, never, never.
I don't think that's the point though.
I think the point.
I'd like to give her a point.
I think the point that was made earlier, some men cheat for different reasons.
We were told earlier by a man who's been married 23 years that his marriage was fine, but it
was just one of those things.
She was in the office.
She was available.
Dr. Pittman, you say what?
Right, yeah.
Cheating is really a team sport.
I don't think I fully realized that until today, but this is a team of guys who have,
they're against.
They're against marriage.
They're against women.
They're exceptions here.
I don't think these guys are against marriage.
I don't think they're against, I don't think they're against marriage, but go ahead.
When you see them, when you see these same guys in your office with their wives, they've
got a very different story on it.
Now what happens is a guy steps out on his wife.
As soon as he does, there's a short circuit in his brain and he rewrites the whole history
of his marriage so that what he did is his wife's fault and she probably wasn't even
there.
Well, bro, I can't go on like that.
We'll be back.
I'll let you respond when we come back, back in a moment.
Over and out.
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We have an audience of men here, all who have cheated on their wives or their girlfriends
and they're explaining to us today why men cheat.
Want to finish your comment?
Make it brief, please.
Yeah, please.
Oprah, real quick, for the caller that came in.
Everybody's not sounding like that.
There's a lot of reasons why men cheat.
A lot of men cheat, like in my situation.
Why did you cheat?
Yes.
Okay, in my situation.
If I got a situation at home and I'm not making enough money, I'm unemployed and I got a friend
out here who's willing to help me.
If I spend that little time and put food on the table, I'm feeding my wife and I'm feeding
my kids.
I don't see how that is in, I don't see how it's wrong.
Wait a minute, let me explain something.
No, no, no.
Understand me perfectly clear.
Understand me.
If push comes to shove, all right, let me explain it a little bit better.
If you are in-
So you're going with the woman because she's giving you money and that's how you feed your
children?
No, no.
The situation was a friendship.
This beats all I ever heard.
This is good.
Why?
Okay.
It started off as a friendship and what happens was there was no intimate and friendly relationship.
There was no intimate affairs.
It started off as a friendship and they say, well, what's wrong with it?
So I turned around and told them what was wrong with the situation.
So they were nice enough to turn around and give me or loan me the money and stuff to
make sure these kids and stuff got situated because of them that I took care of the wife
and the kid.
So I don't see anything wrong with that.
And now she wants something in return?
No, no.
She maybe wants something in return, but the fact is-
But let me just ask you.
I want to go ask you, thank you for making your point, the doctor this.
Many times when people have arguments, you know, in relationships and you fight about
you being laid or your socks being on the floor, whatever, it's never about the socks
being laid and it's never about you coming in late.
It's never about whatever, whatever.
And so for him to say that he was doing-
Well, not- there's always an underlying reason-
I disagree.
Okay.
You disagree?
I'd rather go do that than stick up out in the street and go to jail or the jails is
full of us.
Okay.
It's a lot easier to get the helping hand from a friend than go out there and stick
somebody up, bash them in the head and take something that-
Okay, call or you say what?
Call or you're on the air.
Hi, Oprah.
Yes.
I recognize two of the men in the audience because I'm the one that cheated with them.
Because what?
Because I cheated with them or their wives.
And the reason why they say they were unhappy is because they weren't getting what they
needed at home.
So are you married?
No, I'm not.
Well, somebody made the point earlier that it takes two, so why would you cheat with
them?
Because they made promises that they were going to leave their wives and be with me
and I was fool enough to believe them.
So that's what I just told you.
That's what I just told you, Oprah.
No, that's what I just told you.
Okay.
That's what I just said.
Yes, your point-
All right, like that call me the other one before, if a man say, hey, baby, I'm married,
that is enough for her to step backwards, step whatever comes.
It takes two, Oprah.
That's right.
They don't do that.
It takes two girls.
It takes two people to have it.
You go to a bar and if you say you're married, a girl will still come up and want to go home
with you.
It takes two people to cheat.
What about the point earlier I was making that when you say that, oh, I left because
my wife wasn't doing what I needed or whatever?
Marriage is never perfect.
You can always find something to take offense at.
Most of the people in the world are afraid of being happily married.
They're afraid of being fully, completely married.
Because they're afraid of the intimacy.
They're afraid it'll be possession.
They're afraid they'll really lose themselves into the marriage.
One way to keep from really being-
Isn't it true that men have this feeling more than women?
Women want to be possessed, taken over, and-
Absolutely.
Men don't want it.
Men are afraid of being happily married.
Maybe women are afraid of being unhappily married.
Men are afraid of being happily married.
They find ways.
I hear this in all these guys here.
They're talking about how there's one little way in which they were not made gloriously
happy and therefore whatever they do is now their wife's fault.
Wait.
I can't imagine going through life only knowing one lover.
I just can't imagine it.
I'm a good person and I love women and I just can't imagine it and that's all I have to
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So is the bottom line men cheat because they just want more than one woman?
No.
Men cheat because they're afraid.
You're wrong.
Men cheat because they're afraid of just having one woman.
Okay.
Your point.
I was too tied down.
I would say that I was tied down and I cheated on her girlfriend.
I talked to her on the phone, my wife's girlfriend, and I said, I'm not going to cheat on her.
And she said, that's my girlfriend you're talking to.
She opened the door and she caught me and her girlfriend in the bed.
Okay.
You say what?
Yes.
I was married for five years.
I lived with a woman for five years.
After five years, we got married.
Before we got married, I could go out and do anything I wanted to.
I'm not talking about fooling around, play ball or whatever.
Now she'll come up to your park and get me after we got married.
She ran me out the house.
Okay.
You say what?
Two realities.
There's the primal sexual reality and there's a social reality.
Social reality prohibits us from having the number of women we might naturally have.
Primal reality like sex, if you can do it, you will as a man.
With as many people as you can.
As a person.
Women do not have the same instinct.
It's only the social reality that's a penalty.
Because women want intimacy and religion.
I'm telling you, they want to be with somebody forever who's going to love them and take
care of them.
Yes.
How do you give them that if you're running around?
You know what we're missing Oprah.
That's why we're so successful in what we're doing.
Caller, caller, make your comment brief please.
Yes, caller.
Caller, you're on.
Hello, Oprah?
Yes.
I want to say that this is the weakest bunch of men that I have ever seen in my life.
Okay.
What happened to all the strength that men are supposed to have?
They cannot say no.
They are absolutely weak.
They have their chance to explain.
We're saying yes to women.
We're saying yes to other women.
We're not talking about homosexual relationships here.
We're going after women.
It's not like, it's nature.
It's natural.
If it wasn't available, we couldn't have it.
Oprah, a good part of this problem is the women that are out there masquerading as single
women out there trying to catch these married men because they're either hygienically correct
or they're easier to deal with.
I think it's the married women that are the bulk of the problem of why men mess around.
While they're not doing their homework, they're out in the street looking for Mr. Goodbar.
Good point.
Good point, yes.
I agree with the caller.
I've been divorced now six years myself.
I made a mistake myself.
If I had a chance to do it all over, I would do it over in a different way.
What our society is really missing, being with ladies is being dedicated.
We all should be dedicated.
That way, society would be different in a sense.
These guys said they can't be dedicated.
Everybody can be dedicated.
Everybody has that little wild thing in them right now.
Everybody has that little wild thing in them now.
That's what it really is.
Everybody is running.
Okay, your point.
I get caught twice cheating.
One time someone cheated on me.
I'll never do it again because now I know how they felt when I did it to them.
I never do it again.
Who makes these rules?
Who decides what we're doing is wrong?
I can see if you were married and I can understand, okay, that's wrong.
You shouldn't be doing it.
Just because I'm single doesn't mean I can't do it.
Who says I'm wrong?
Society doesn't make these rules.
I was talking to him about that and he said, made a point to me that said because there's
all kinds of feelings and other people being involved with it, I don't understand.
That doesn't make sense to me.
You're making a dream.
What about hurting the other person?
Okay, I admit, when I got caught, I felt bad at the initial moment just a little bit.
What really made me feel bad was when she was hurting and I looked at her afterwards.
Afterwards, that's when I felt bad.
Okay, back in a moment.
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The Real Story on the tabloids, this week at four.
Okay, Dr. Pittman's book is called Private Lies.
It will be available in bookstores in January.
I thank you audience of you cheatin' men for making your lies public here.
And again, Johnny B., thank you.
You wanted to say what?
The point is that they want us to be strong.
Well, it's gotta be an equal factor.
They have to be just as strong.
It takes two.
A hundred percent.
No fifty-fifty.
How about, you know, if you're gonna cheat, alright fine, but at least communicate it
to the other person.
If you're ready to cheat, the relationship's probably over anyways.
That's right.
The central point in all of this is that this can happen, but whatever you do, good or bad,
protect your lives, protect your marriage, tell the truth.
That keeps it from falling apart.
Tell the truth, whatever you do.
Good shot.
Tell the truth.
Thank you.
Hi, I'm Steve Edwards.
Monday on AM, Michael Edwards talks about his seven-year live-in love affair with Priscilla
Presley.
No hold will be barred.
We'll be right back with the show, with the show's editor, Locklear and Ernest Borgnine,
Monday at 9.
For written transcripts, send $3 to Oprah Transcripts, 267 Broadway, New York, New York,
1007.
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