The man you're looking at right now is in prison.
Not because he robbed a bank or stole a car but because he wanted to save his best friend's
life.
His name is Benny Milligan and he is sharing his jail cell now with his best friend James
McAlvin.
They played ball together growing up.
They joined the Navy together.
James was even the best man at Billy's wedding.
But the greatest challenge to their lifelong friendship occurred while hiking in this park
in Tennessee.
During their hike, James slipped and fell from this waterfall tumbling 30 feet to the
ground where Benny found him, bloody and unconscious.
They had a video camera there.
That's why you can see that.
Benny managed to get James to a nearby hospital but what they did next is what has landed
them in jail.
Also with us via satellite is Benny's wife, Tammy, who was also at that park when James
fell.
She's now under house arrest for her role in their scam.
So welcome all of you all to the show.
What did you do, Benny?
Well I just did what I thought I had to do to keep him alive.
Okay, take us back to the day.
You're walking along, was it Natchez Trace Parkway?
Yes, ma'am.
Yeah, I know that very well.
It was right outside of a town called Hohenwal, Tennessee.
We went up there to visit some friends and he took us out to a place he described as
a beautiful waterfall, which it was.
I had my camera and was filming as we went down the slope and after a couple of minutes
my wife and the other lady Tabitha that was there yelled that James had fallen off the
side.
I ran up to the, I threw my camera on the ground and ran to the edge.
There I saw James face down in the water.
James were you unconscious?
Well if you were unconscious you wouldn't know.
Were you unconscious?
Yes, ma'am, I don't, as far as I can remember and I don't even remember waking up that
day and about two days afterwards I don't remember anything.
My first memories were actually being transferred to the third hospital which is Vanderbilt.
It's the only thing I can remember about the whole situation.
Okay, so you woke up after you were in the hospital.
So Benny, continue the story.
He had slipped, he had fallen and we have some of that on video tape because you obviously
had the camera with you.
Right, I, you know when I saw him the first thing that came to mind was to get his face
out of the water because I thought well if he, I knew he wasn't moving, he was probably
unconscious and breathing he would be drowning himself.
So I ran to the most accessible slope to get down to the bottom.
When I got down there and I rolled him over out of the water I saw that his head was split
open from probably the middle of his forehead down across his nose and out across his cheek
and blood, you know his face was all bloody from the water mixing with it.
Then I tried to find a pulse and to see if he was breathing or if he was drowned or what
was the problem when I couldn't find a pulse and he was turning blue like ash in kind of
a color.
So not thinking of anything to do with his back or anything like that I just began to
carry him with me and a friend of mine began to carry him and when we got to the edge of
the cliff I kind of just put him on my back and started climbing with him.
So you got to the hospital, somebody called the ambulance obviously right?
No ma'am we took him, we got to the top of the cliff and the top of the hill and put
him in the car and drove him to the hospital.
You got to the hospital and what happened?
Well on the way to the hospital a friend of mine Justin and his wife were, his wife was
crying saying he was going to die and Justin explained to what extent she was talking about
that the people up there are known to turn people away from the hospital at this hospital
that we were going to.
Turn them away why?
Well for not having insurance.
And James didn't have any insurance?
No ma'am being as close as we are he had discussed it probably a month before we went
up there that he had gone to get insurance and it was just too high he couldn't afford
it and I mean that's the way I knew that he didn't have any.
And James your job didn't offer health insurance where you were working?
No ma'am I've never worked for a painting company that offered me health insurance so
it was kind of normal that I didn't have it.
I had worked with his comp but we were on vacation.
So you didn't have any health insurance whatsoever?
No ma'am.
And so you knew this, Benny you knew this?
Yes ma'am the ride seemed like an eternity but after I found out that it was only about
ten miles and I don't see how that time seemed so long but with the information that I had
picked up in the car about the hospital in the area there something came over me when
I got there and I ran into the hospital and was yelling for some help and I needed help
right now.
I told them a doctor came out with a nurse I believe and they went into the car into
the back seat of the car and began to take his blood pressure and whatever vital signs.
So somebody asked for his name a nurse or someone asked for his name and for his health
insurance number is that correct?
Yes ma'am they came while they were doing that and another lady came out with a clipboard
and came up to me and began to ask that information and it was somewhere right in there that I
made a decision to give him my name and I mean not even knowing the severity but knowing
that he had to have help right then or he was going to die and with the information
that they had given me that they weren't going to accept him without it I just felt like
I couldn't.
The hospital didn't give you that information your friends in the car had indicated that
this had happened?
Right.
So you then said that his name was your name and gave them your health insurance number?
I gave them my health insurance number and every bit of information that they requested
about him which was mine address phone number social security number and all this was from
memory I had no documentation or no I didn't even have a wallet with me.
So then you wake up in the hospital James and they're calling you Benny?
Yes ma'am.
Yeah.
It was pretty scary I didn't even really know what had happened to me at first you
know I mean they're calling me Benny Milligan and then they inform me of what had happened
to me it was pretty scary.
So then Benny when did you say to him look we've switched identities so that you could
have health insurance?
Was there at some point that you informed James of what was going on or James did you
figure it out on your own?
No I had to figure it out on my own because Benny had already went back to New Orleans
and when he was working so I was like just told what had happened to me and you know
it scared me that being called Benny but it kind of came to me you know why I was there
under his name you know I was in a lot of pain and under a lot of sedation but it still
came through.
You were in a lot of sedation and they're calling you Benny and you say I'm sicker than
I thought.
Yes ma'am.
So you guys are sharing are you sharing a cell?
Yes ma'am.
You're sharing a cell because you are what was the charge fraud conspiracy?
Mail fraud wire fraud and conspiracy.
Yes but you're really there because you thought your friend was going to die your friend didn't
have health insurance so you gave your health insurance number to him.
Yes ma'am that's exactly why.
And how much time are you serving because of this?
I have nine months to serve.
And I'm doing seven months.
Seven months.
Yes ma'am.
If you had to do it all over again would you?
Well from standing on that on that on the ridge of that waterfall looking down with
the information that I had I'd have to say yes I would do it but but given the you know
the knowledge that I have now I'd have to think hard about it real hard.
And the knowledge that you have now is that you you later found out of course you all
know it's federal law that no hospital can turn you away in a state of emergency.
Yes ma'am and also I had no idea that that what I was doing was any kind of a federal
offense or you know something that would end me in jail and and put my family through the
through the suffering that they've been.
You knew it was wrong though right?
You knew it was you felt that maybe I'm sure that when you did it you felt some kind of
a feeling that perhaps maybe this isn't the right thing to do but maybe for you at the
time it was the best thing to do.
Well not actually when I did it but after I guess you could say the smoke cleared and
I had my my senses back about me I realized that that it's you know that it's obviously
wrong and will be found out and that I'll have to pay the money back.
Yes because we'll continue that story because wasn't there a time when you then had to
decide it you were going to go into your to where you worked and say to the people in
charge there explain this whole thing to them?
Yes ma'am I made an appointment and went there to the employee assistance office and ended
up not being able to go through with it.
I knew that what you know I was supposed to be granted confidentiality for the for anything
I told them but I realized that after I got there that that they wouldn't be able to
hold that.
It's confidential.
Yeah.
When we come back Tammy's going to tell us why she got fired from her job at an off-track
betting parlor after Benny and James's trial and what happened the day the men went off
to prison.
We'll talk to them when we come back.
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I hit him he bounced into my windshield and he laid he laid on the ground.
I got out and asked him if he was okay.
Her son died his pain is gone but the man who killed him has to live with himself.
The last time I saw Candace is when she was laying on the ground in front of my truck.
Forgiving yourself when you hurt someone by mistake on tomorrow's Oprah.
We know there are about 35 at least 35 million Americans who don't have health insurance
because James did not have health insurance and his friend Benny thought that he was going
to die after falling off of a cliff near waterfall.
Benny exchanged identities with James so that he could have health insurance and now they
are have been charged with fraud and they are in jail serving a prison sentence.
The federal prosecutor was interviewed about this case and this is how he described it.
I don't agree that a good Samaritan lies there was no need for them to lie and even if they
did lie initially because they felt like there was a necessity they had ample opportunity
to straighten it up.
He says you had ample opportunity to straighten it up Benny do you agree with that as time
wore on because this went on for how long.
Well it happened and I was fired about two months later and then questioned by the inspector
general's office.
You were fired after your job found out.
Yes ma'am.
They called you in and said we are looking at these insurance forms here what's going
on.
Yes ma'am.
How are you at work and also having surgery in Nashville Tennessee.
Because James had to have back surgery is that correct?
Yes ma'am.
The time frame was probably.
Hey Benny didn't you know you were caught then did you just come clean and say look
I lied.
No I still didn't come clean because I didn't realize the severity until after the inspector
general's office came.
But didn't they fire you on the spot then.
Yes ma'am they fired me for a violation of company policy.
And I told them that there must be some mistake and that they must have switched numbers or
had some kind of some kind of clerical error and tried to play it off like that.
I don't know I'm not trying to make light of this or anything but isn't it fascinating
about a lie.
Once you start with one lie you got to tell a bunch of other lies to cover up the first
lie.
Isn't that what you found.
Did you discover that that the lies got bigger and then you have to remember what you lied
about before and trying to cover the.
Did you find that.
That's exactly true.
You know that's what that's what you always hear and why are you growing up and that's
why I never was a liar and I hated to find myself in that situation.
But everybody out there should listen to that and it because it is exactly true.
So you lost your job and was did you think that was the end of it.
Well I thought that I would end up having to pay the money back and then I thought that
that would be the end of it until they brought the investigator in and then they they went
before grand jury and indicted me.
Indicted you.
So Tammy is your wife correct.
Yes ma'am.
Tammy is you've been you're under house arrest is that correct Tammy.
Yes ma'am.
What does that mean you can't leave your house.
That means that I can't leave the house unless I go and do groceries or to work to take the
children to school.
And you're under house arrest because you went along with Benny pretending to be James's
wife.
Yes.
Yes ma'am.
OK.
So you pretended to be James's wife beginning when at the at the time of the accident when
you all were all in the hospital as he was being admitted to the hospital.
Well see what happened was I was out with the nurse and the doctor the physician in
the car trying to get James to be still so they could put him on the spine board because
once they started moving him on to a spine board he finally started making noise and
acting like that there was life in him.
So I was like James just be still be real still they're trying to help you.
And Benny came out to the car and kind of like nudged me and said you know he just nudged
me and looked at me like don't say his name is James just you know be quiet.
So that's what I did.
And then we went into the hospital room I mean into the hospital and they rolled him
right into x-ray.
And then at that time somebody came up to me and said the nurse came in and said that
Mrs. Milligan we need you into the x-ray room to help keep your husband still.
That's kind of how it happened.
I went in there to try to keep him still.
Because you are Mrs. Milligan.
Yeah.
And then and then I'm trying to keep James still and they come over there and start to
take his pants down.
Well I was like oh my god this ain't my husband.
So I turn around and practically run out the door and when I'm running out the door I almost
knocked the woman down who's a minister to get to sign the papers for the insurance has
his wife.
I almost knocked her down.
Yeah.
And she says Mrs. Milligan.
Because you didn't want to see James with his pants down I take it.
No.
So you continue to go along with this too.
Would you visit him in the hospital or what happened?
What happened was we left the next day.
And went back to went back home.
Yeah.
So you lost your job after this because.
Yes ma'am.
Yes I lost my job because in the state of Louisiana you cannot have a gaming badge from
the racing commission if you're a convicted felon.
But the off track batting parlor that I worked at called the finish line was terribly upset
to lose me as their to lose their employee as me because I was an excellent employee.
The customers were very well liked me and they loved me I showed a work at time you
know on time.
But you had to lose your job because of the law.
Right.
So you were convicted for what?
I was convicted for four counts of mail fraud and one count of wire fraud and one count
of conspiracy.
So how do you feel now being a convicted criminal?
I feel awful because I've never been in any kind of trouble in my life and now I'm this
big time convicted felon I feel like.
And James and Benny you're in you're you're in prison.
Is prison life anything like you imagined expected.
I mean when you finally realize if you've been an upstanding citizen all your life and
you know the most that's ever happened to you is you get a couple of parking tickets
and you end up in jail in a cell.
What's that like?
Well it's as far as prison goes this this is a I guess nothing like I had imagined.
It's a an open kind of an atmosphere and you just basically go and come as you please.
As far as being not come and go as you please we can James.
James what were you saying?
No I said it's not we can come and go as we please that would be nice for a prison.
It's we can you know we have to work you know we work just like anybody else would work
and you have you have free time you have you have to be in certain places at certain times
for an account but it's as far as like seeing a prison on TV this you know this is more
like a camp a federal federal camp type thing it's a little bit more lenient on you but
it's the separation from you know your loved ones I guess is the hardest part.
So you are you are you say you're allowed to work you don't get to leave there and work
or you work there?
We work here.
You work there.
Doing what?
Excuse me?
Doing what?
No well I painted on the on the outside for a living so I'm painting on the inside for
a living.
Coming up a man who is assuming a fake identity right now so that he can save his own life.
We'll talk to him in a moment.
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Well we'll take a look at how this compares to last season's drought conditions.
And why are the feds bringing in the big guns of that Texas religious cult standoff?
I'm Jean Anderson join us for a live report from Waco Texas.
King Five news tonight at five.
Joining us now on the phone is Gino who says he has a tumor and assumed a fake identity
because he could not afford the hospital bills.
So right now you are going to the hospital on a regular basis Gino?
Yes I am Oprah.
Under an assumed identity?
Correct.
Does the person whose identity you've assumed know that you assumed it?
No.
So I don't want you to tell me how you did it because I don't want anybody else to get
any ideas but is it somebody you know?
Someone I know socially but we're not friends or anything like that.
So how do you get all of their health insurance numbers and things like that?
Ironically the insurance company provided me with that information.
So you're doing this why?
Because you don't have any health insurance of your own?
No on the onset of the illness I did not have any health insurance and I knew...
It's hard to get it once you got it right?
You're right and with a pre-existing condition I knew I couldn't get...
And what is your condition Gino?
I was found with a malignant tumor on my hip which was successfully removed and had to
undergo surgery, chemotherapy and hip replacement with a prosthetic.
Hip replacement?
And so how often do you get treatment?
The chemotherapy treatments cease because they believe it to be successful however I'm
undergoing corrective surgery and physical therapy for the hip joint.
On what?
How often?
I guess it can range from once a month to three times a month.
So what kind of bills have you accumulated?
I would estimate probably $300,000.
I want to ask Benny and James, one of the things that has happened as a result of you
being in jail, you have to pay the money back?
Yes ma'am.
Okay and how much money is that?
That's $41,270 I think it is.
So this is...how are you going to pay that back?
Your wife's not working and you're not working, who has to pay it back?
You have to pay it or does James also, is he held responsible for paying?
The judge ordered it paid back jointly and severally so it's all three of us.
I think it works out to where we pay a third a piece, Tammy, myself and James.
How long had you been working at this job?
I worked there for eight years.
So now you're out of a job, your wife is out of a job, how are you all living?
Well just by the grace of God and friends and family and it's rough, but we have no
choice but to make it through this.
Yeah.
What has been the hardest part for you, Benny?
Not being there with my children.
How old are your children?
I have a little girl, Amanda, she's six, a little girl, Candice, is four, and my youngest
is Brittany, she's 15 months and not being there to watch them grow up and provide support
for them and it's just the most terrible thing you can imagine.
And the worst for you, Tammy, has been what?
The worst for me has been not having Benny here with the children to help me out, not
having Benny here, period.
It's been real hard.
Well I know James and Benny you've been through a lot.
James, did you ever think you'd have the kind of friend who would be willing to go to jail
for you?
Well I guess I had always hoped so, you know, but it's almost kind of, you know, since we've
been through so much together, it was kind of almost a, I don't know how to say it, you
know, we kind of expect that from each other but didn't think we'd go to jail together.
Yeah.
Gino, are you going to continue to defraud?
Well hopefully once my health situation is resolved, I would like to seek out some sort
of council or some way to resolve this financial situation because it did balloon into something
I did not expect.
Yeah because what's going to happen when that person finds out that they've been defrauded
for $300,000, the insurance company's been defrauded?
Well obviously they won't like that.
Why do you think they haven't found out already?
I think it's the way the system works.
I'm not sure why.
I used to work in the insurance industry myself but I'm amazed that this has gone on as long
as it has and there's so far been no inclination that anything is wrong.
So you didn't have any health insurance.
Having done this for over a period of time now, do you think maybe there is something
else you could have done or do you think defrauding is the only thing you could have done?
I don't think, every inflection there's nothing that I believe I could have done that would
have saved my leg or my life Oprah.
You think you would have died without doing these things that are illegal?
Yes because at the time that I did go to the physician, the tumor had almost broken through
my pelvis bone and if that had happened I would have surely lost my leg as well as infected
my bloodstream with cancer cells.
Are you sorry that you've done it this way?
Are you sorry about defrauding?
I feel bad about possibly defrauding a company and a healthcare system but the way I'd look
at it, I'd rather be wrong standing on my own two legs than being right and buried six
feet under.
Coming up we're going to meet a mother whose son died after he left the hospital because
he did not have medical coverage.
We'll be right back, back in a moment.
He moves like Michael Jordan but he's never played in the NBA.
Next time on Entertainment Tonight you'll get the inside story on Meadowlark Lemon,
the Harlem Globetrotter all-star who's still cutting up on the court and won't tell anyone
how old he is.
Whenever I wake up in the morning I feel like I'm 18.
Plus Lou Diamond Phillips survives the hardest film location of his career.
I wonder how we managed to get all of it.
It's all on the next Entertainment Tonight, tonight at 7.30 on King Pond.
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For many people this is a time when there is no hope.
On the next Billy Graham television special, Mr. Graham addresses this issue when he speaks
to God's answers for the problems that are found in the heart of man.
And there will be music by Larnell Harris, the Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir and George Beverly
Shea, all on the next Billy Graham television special.
Joining me now is Gerald Doris.
Gerald was in a car wreck several years ago.
He lost his hand and his leg after a hospital refused to treat him without medical insurance.
That of course is against the law, let me say that again.
And meet Fay Burns, whose son died soon after he was discharged from a hospital when he
expressed concern about not being able to pay his medical bills.
So Gerald, one of the things that Gino, who is defrauding an insurance company and has,
he says, run up bills now for up to $300,000, just said to us that he would rather be standing
on his own two feet.
You didn't have insurance at the time?
No.
This is the only time I never had insurance, actually.
Uh-huh.
Because you had it before?
Yes, I've always had it.
And what happened?
I changed jobs and went through a different job and for a few months didn't have it, an
accident happened just in that little period of time.
And what was the accident?
I was a passenger in a car wreck and went to, from what I understood, I was supposed
to go to a hospital and get transferred to another hospital.
And I heard, from what I understand, a helicopter was on its way to pick me up, I think it was
a life flight.
And I got called back because I didn't have insurance.
And then the place there wouldn't accept me because I didn't have insurance, so I laid
there for like 11 hours.
And then finally, daddy, my dad had a lot to do with this.
Got a hold of some people and strings got pulled or whatever.
And I got flew to Texas.
I had to go out of state to get treated.
So that's sort of how that happened.
Because what state were you in again?
Tennessee.
Yes.
And so you ended up losing your leg.
Which leg?
The left one.
Right above the knee.
Yeah.
So you have prosthetic, obviously.
Yes, yes.
And lost your hand.
Yes.
Because of it.
Because you didn't have insurance.
Yes.
A leg could have been saved.
There's no doubt.
You sued the hospital?
Yes.
I'm not really supposed to talk much about that.
I'm not going to let you talk much about it.
I just want to say you sued the hospital and you won.
Did you have?
Yes.
Because it is against the law to do this to people.
Yeah.
That's why I agree with James and Benny.
Is that his name?
Yeah.
That I think I'd have did the same thing they did.
I really would.
You would have?
Yes.
No doubt.
Because that word that they told him that he would have got taken anyway, well they
didn't take me.
And that same hospital speaking of.
Oh.
How'd that happen?
I don't believe in coincidences, but so I didn't know this.
So that's the same hospital that didn't treat you?
Right.
Pretty wild.
Uh huh.
I'm not telling you the name of the hospital.
So, so, so what Benny had heard, Benny, Benny did you know this?
No ma'am.
I didn't know that.
I just knew that what my friend had told me.
In the car.
That they had, that this hospital had been known for turning people away.
Yes ma'am.
Yeah.
Uh, so by no means are we suggesting at all that it's okay to break the law.
You all know that.
That's not what we're saying here.
If you don't have medical insurance.
The problem is the healthcare system in our country, but breaking the law is not the answer.
Do you agree with that Benny?
Yes ma'am.
I agree with it and I'd just like to, if anything at all comes from this, the fact that nobody
else has to go through this and suffer like we have and like our families have and that
something can be done that people will know when they go to the hospital that they're
going to be treated and they don't have to go through any of this, any of this kind of
stuff.
I know, but when, I know you can't see cause you, can you see, I don't know if we set
up a satellite, can you see Gerald here?
No ma'am.
Okay.
Well you hear that Gerald had lost his leg and lost his hand because that same hospital
coincidentally did not take him.
Are you, does it make you feel, I suppose more glad that you did what you did or not?
Well I can't say it's justified, but I felt that the reason I did what I did was not on
my own behalf.
I think there was something that I really felt like I had no control that it just something
that came through me to, to, to make this happen because it just, it was so spontaneous
and just, just came out.
I suppose sitting in prison, you more than ever hopes that Hillary Clinton gets this
healthcare plan underway for America.
Yes ma'am, I sure do.
Yeah, we will be back to speak to Faye in a moment.
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Faye, Faye's son, your son was in the hospital.
Yes ma'am.
And he died 15 hours after leaving, why?
Because he was discharged, because he didn't have insurance.
And what happened?
You mean before he was discharged?
No, I mean so what, he developed a blood clot or what happened?
When he went to the hospital he went because he had chest pains and real short of breath
and he admitted himself to an emergency room and persuaded the doctor that was on duty
then to accept $600 and they did some basic tests.
Chest x-ray was ordered and was never taken.
And then Bill went into the hospital and then about midnight a cardiologist came in, checked
Bill supposedly, and left and said he would be back the next day.
And I don't think that he even touched Bill frankly.
The next day he came back, he checked Bill and sort of looked around for the x-ray which
was never taken and didn't order one.
So you've become an advocate against patient dumping because of this.
Very much so.
You've turned this into something hopefully positive for other people.
I hope so.
But anyway, the doctor discharged Bill, sent him home with instructions not to lift and
to stay home from work for a week and recoup and 15 hours later he had died.
Joining me is Ron Pollack.
Ron is the executive director of Families USA.
It's a healthcare group working with Benny and James and Ron says the real crime here
is not the fraud they committed, although we know that that was a crime, but it is our
country's healthcare system that forced them into their dilemma.
What do you say about that?
Ron, what do you want to say about that?
Okay.
Well, Oprah, it's interesting.
We're talking about James' situation.
It is true that the hospital should have admitted him, but under federal law there's no requirement
that once his condition was stabilized that he would get the surgery that he received.
Now the physician told him that if he did not get the spinal fusion that he ultimately
received that there was more than a 90 percent chance that he'd be permanently paralyzed.
And so there was no obligation under federal law to provide that operation.
And I'm fairly secure in saying that he was very much in jeopardy in terms of being permanently
paralyzed had this deception not taken place.
Interestingly enough, though, I saw or read an article, so I don't believe 90 percent
of what I read, but I at least read this article where the surgeon said that if he had known
he would have gone and performed the surgery anyway if he hadn't had insurance.
But I wonder, would that have been the surgeon's decision or the hospital's or was that really
the hospital's decision?
Well, it's interesting.
In this particular hospital, which is not necessarily the worst of hospitals in the
country, one of the first comments they made was it's a teaching hospital that if we thought
this would be very helpful in terms of instruction of the students, then perhaps they would provide
the treatment.
But of course, you never know whether you are really a good subject for learning.
And so he was very much in jeopardy.
Well coming up, a mother forced to drive 200 miles to deliver her baby because she also
didn't have any medical coverage.
We'll be right back.
A leak from the Pentagon reveals early news about which military bases will close.
Tonight on King 5 News at 5 is Defense Secretary Les Aspin considering bases in our state.
An in-depth report from our Washington, D.C. Bureau.
Also at 5, why is a common surgery to stop heart problems so dangerous for women?
And tonight at 6.30, a fight for her right to fight.
Can this teenage girl win her battle with the United States Amateur Boxing Association?
The Bellingham Boxer story tonight at 6.30.
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So you wanted to share what with us.
You said...
Okay, first I'd like to preface what I'm going to say by just making the point that all of
these stories are extremely upsetting and something definitely has to be done if these
people aren't getting medical attention when they are in a life-threatening situation.
But the fact remains that these people did commit fraud and they need to be punished
for this.
They are adding to the problem and the increased cost of insurance in this country and making
more people suffer in the long run.
So you believe that Gino, who was on the phone, who had the malignant tumor, that he should
go to jail?
After the initial...
Benny especially, after the initial treatment, it is no longer a life-threatening situation.
Why drag it out?
Why keep making these insurance companies suffer?
He's asking Benny that question.
Benny, Benny, this young man in the audience wants to know, after the life-threatening
situation was over and James had been stabilized, why not then come clean?
Well, I wish I could have come clean.
I felt terrible in having to continue with this thing, but the fact that the hospitals
can at any time after the stabilization, which they classify as 24 hours to death, is what
they consider stable.
If someone were to die because of this, it is already a fact that they will be charged
with a misdemeanor and basically a slap on the hand by a board of hospital commissioners,
not even any type of authorities.
What did you want to say, Ron?
Oprah, I'd say first of all, Benny has three children and Benny knew that if he told what
had happened, he'd lose his job and his children would be in jeopardy.
So it's understandable.
I don't think Benny's trying to justify it, but it's very understandable.
I think the real crime is our health care system, which puts good people...
If these people are not punished for their crimes, and I feel that these two gentlemen
in prison are getting off very easily in the type of situation that they're describing,
then everyone's going to do this.
Everyone will be using other people's insurance and the costs will go way up and we'll be
in a worse situation than we're in now.
We'll be right back, I'll let you speak, Ron, when we come back.
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Well, I'm just saying that the real tragedy here is the health care in this country.
That's right.
You know, the United States is the only democracy in the world where this could have been a
crime.
Right.
You see, in the United States, we've got, over the next two years, there are more than
60 million people who will be without health insurance for some period of time.
Over and above that, there are tens of millions of people who have lousy insurance.
They've got gaps in their coverage and caps in their coverage, and then there are people
with preexisting health conditions, and the insurance companies simply won't sell insurance
to you.
So this is a really big problem.
Well, but do you think the Clintons are going to make a difference?
I believe that we're going to see health care reform in 1993, and it's hopefully going
to provide peace of mind for all of us so that all of us get high-quality, comprehensive
coverage.
But then what are we willing to give up for that?
Because yes, Tammy?
Yes?
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry to interrupt.
I needed to go back to that fellow and comment on what he had said about the punishment that
Benny and I and James are paying for what we did, what was wrong, and why didn't, after
the surgery, didn't we come out and say, well, the reason why was because Benny was the sole
supporter of our family, and we knew that he would lose his job, and we were very scared
and very afraid what might happen if he did come out and say the truth.
Okay?
And the second point about that is...
But also, let's go back to...
We should be punished.
I agree.
We should be punished.
But I mean, the federal government spent $350,000 for just to convict us, and now they're spending
that much more, at least, on support and Benny and James while they're in there, feeding
them, paying for them to live.
So we should have been punished, yes, but should the taxpayers be punished also?
Should their money go to this when it could go to health reform, and these people wouldn't
have to...
Yeah, that was one of Mike's points, though.
One of the things that Mike, that's your name in the audience, who said that because of
this, we're all gonna end up spending more money.
So let me say again, so that nobody writes me saying that I'm endorsing people lying
and defrauding.
That's not what we're trying to say here.
However, you drove 200 miles because you couldn't get in the hospital.
You drove 200 miles with your water broke?
No.
I was in active labor, though.
And was it your first baby?
Yes.
Yeah.
So you drove 200 miles in active labor.
That is a feat because you couldn't be accepted in the hospital?
Yes.
We'll be back in a moment.
Did he try to murder her or did he try to save her life?
Tonight on King 5 News at 5, Jennifer Meeling testifies in the trial of her husband, Joseph.
Here what she told the jury about that night he asked her to take a Sudafed capsule.
Also tonight at 5, when the Seattle woman heard the horror stories of rape camps in
Bosnia, she knew she had to help.
What she's accomplished already is amazing, but she needs more help to aid the hundreds
of rape survivors.
Join us tonight, King 5 News at 5.
So why are your hospital bills so high, 99% of them are wrong to begin with.
But what about the local hospital billing Medicare hundreds of thousands of dollars
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Watch the next hour times, Wednesday at 10 on King 5.
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