It's been five years since I've talked to her, and now Madonna's giving it up.
You know, she's only got to you.
For the first time, what she says about that kiss.
Is everybody in this room seeing the kiss?
This is our primary close-up camera.
Marriage, motherhood, her latest passion.
Let's get the dancers in place.
We have speed.
I'm with Madonna.
Are you ready?
We're ready, Oprah.
Stand by.
In five, four, three.
A whole new side of Madonna.
There she is!
Yeah, up on your feet, let me stick to you
Well, you know how to tell me what to do
This is a team who backed up Madonna and Missy Elliott in their new Groovin' Gap commercial
And she's here!
It's her one and only interview about her new passion
Please welcome Madonna!
Oh my God!
Okay, thanks Gap Dancers!
Anyone here not see the tape?
I did it, I didn't see it
You did it and you haven't seen it
I didn't see it either, I thought I was the only person in the world who hadn't seen it
So I said to my producers, they said you're the only person in the world who hasn't seen it
So roll the tape for the four of us in the room, including Madonna, who have not seen it
They like the smell of it in Hollywood
How could it hurt you when it looks so good?
Okay, so the world is still talking about it, and it's almost what, two weeks later?
I got on a plane and went to Scotland that night, so I've been oblivious until this moment
Really? Did you know that it was on the front page?
I had no idea that it was going to cause the ruckus that it caused
It was just a friendly kiss
Not only was it a ruckus, but it's like major news stories
I heard that it's been like running on clips over and over and over again in this country
But you are totally oblivious
Yeah, there must be a lack of news stories or something, right?
Now, was that planned or was it spontaneous or what was it?
Basically, it was supposed to, you know, I was the groom and I had two brides, right?
So, you know, the groom and the bride are supposed to kiss
And it was just meant to be a playful kind of ironic comment on the bride and groom kissing
Because I had two brides, so I was going to kiss both of my brides
And all the rehearsals we did, it was very, you know, mwah, mwah, right?
That's more than mwah
I know, but if Brittany looks like she's kissing me in an aggressive manner, it was a surprise to me
I swear to God
And, you know, I'm a showgirl
After 20 years in show business, we learned to roll with the punches, you know?
Absolutely
That's right, you don't go, oh my
You get a lemon, you make lemonade
If someone comes out with their lips slightly parted, you have to kiss them
That's the way it is
But it was totally meant in innocence and fun and I don't know
I don't know why people are making such a big deal about it
You really don't
I really don't
You really don't, and are you surprised?
Well, hasn't anyone ever seen two girls kiss before?
Well, I don't know if most of America has, have you?
Now, listen, they're just acting this hip because you're here
No, but I mean, it was silly, you know?
So it wasn't meant to be, you weren't trying to make a statement or do anything?
About what?
I don't know, I don't know
I made those statements 10 years ago
Now, your daughter, Lourdes, made her debut performance on the music video
Yeah, she was a flower girl
I know, look at the little flowers
Was she nervous at all?
She was more obsessed with her hair than her performance, I have to tell you
She's got a hair obsession, so
Were you nervous for her?
Yeah, I have to say I was a little bit worried about her doing it in the first place
Because I thought, oh God, she's going to go out on stage
And then she's just going to think it's the most incredible thing in the world
And then love it, and then
Yeah
Yeah, do you not want her to love the stage?
Well, I just wanted to have a normal childhood, you know
Do you think so far you've been able to present her with a normal childhood?
As normal
As you can be
As it could be, you know
I mean, when we get home and the doors are closed, I would definitely say
I mean, I don't know what your idea of normal is
But we don't play up the idea that there are celebrities living in the house
Or that we don't talk about fame, we don't have magazines in the house
And we don't watch television, so
We're cut off from all of that
But she certainly is aware of, by now, the nature of your fame
Because she's old enough to understand a little bit more about what that means
She is, I don't think
No, she knows that I work for a living, she knows I sing and dance for a living
She's come to a million photo shoots and video shoots
She understands that's mom's work
And she's basically accepted the presence of photographers on the streets
We never talk about it, they're there, they're like
We call them bunnies
Oh, do you?
Are the bunnies out there?
Yeah
Mom, there's bunnies out there
I'm like, okay
And then we go in the house and no one ever mentions them again
That's cool
Yeah
When we come back, what Madonna never thought she'd do, she is now doing
And it's really wonderful
We'll be right back to talk about it with Madonna
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Now tell Santa what you want for Christmas
A lawyer and a manager, an agent and a chef
Three nannies and an assistant and a driver and a jet
A trainer and a butler and a bodyguard or five
A gardener and a status, do you think I'm satisfied?
I'd like to express my extreme point of view
I'm not a Christian and I'm not a Jew
I'm just living out the American dream
I'm just living out the American dream
That was the song, American Life, from Madonna's new CD, American Life
What were you saying in that song?
Basically, the idea is that I have all of these things that money can buy
But I've realized that those aren't the things that make you happy
That make you feel fulfilled
And that nothing in the material world will ever make us happy
You are the material girl
Well, that was meant to be ironic
Yeah
No, but no
No, but I mean, I'm still not the material girl
I mean, I suppose to a certain extent there were many years in my life
I mean, I'm sure I don't suppose
Where I thought that those things would
That fame and fortune and public approval would bring me happiness
And then, well you know, one day you wake up and you realize it doesn't
And what was that day for you?
I think it's after I made a Vita, you know, I'd won a Golden Globe
I was pregnant, I was about to have a baby
And you know, it seemed like life was hunky-dory, I had everything
But I still felt like something was missing
And what was that something?
An understanding of what my place in the world really was
Up until that point, I felt myself being sort of controlled
By the ups and downs that happened to me in my life
You know, if things were going great, I was happy
If someone said something negative about me in the newspapers, I got depressed
If I had a relationship that was fun and good and everything was hunky-dory
Then I was happy
And if that relationship fell apart, then I was not happy
And I didn't understand, I didn't feel like I was in control of my life
So you were being defined by all the external things?
By the things, exactly, by external things
So what happened after you realized there's more to life than all of this stuff?
Was there something in particular that happened that caused this?
I think probably the biggest thing was the fact that I was about to become a parent
And I wanted to understand what I was going to teach my daughter
And I didn't really understand where I stood on things
I wanted to understand what the meaning of happiness was
And what and how I was going to go about finding true and lasting happiness in my life
And how I was going to teach that to my daughter
What do you think now when you look back at some of those years?
I mean all the little girls who were imitating you and walking around with the breasts pointed out
And their bras on the outside of the clothes
Because they didn't have what you had, but wanted whatever they thought the illusion that you had
They wanted that
And were not looking beneath the surface of anything other than I want, I want, I want
What do you think when you look back on that time?
When I look back at it, I think, wow, I had a huge desire
A huge desire to receive
I had big dreams, I was ambitious, I was courageous, I was provocative
But I don't feel like I had the whole picture of life
I did the best that I could with the knowledge that I had
And when you know better, you do better
Exactly
And so was it your children or just this desire?