from many directions. It's exactly what I said. The things I've said have been correct.
The question then is can you work in an election campaign and offer ideas and try to help shape
the electorate? I think you can. I think it's the responsibility of people who are running
for office to say what they know and to say what they think and to stand up for it, and
that's what I'm doing.
But there's no evidence the White House tried to get you removed from CNN as an analyst.
No, I haven't presented any evidence because were I to present that evidence, people would
be in trouble.
There is evidence.
Well, I mean, there's what I know and the person that told me about it, but I'm under
no obligation to present that evidence. I know what happened, and if I hadn't been confident
that that had happened, I wouldn't have said it.
I want to give you a chance to respond to some of the comments some of your fellow military
men have said about you because it has received a lot of treat coverage in the newspapers
and the television.
This was a question posed to Hugh Shelton, who was the Chief of Staff, Chairman of the
Joint Chief of Staff under President Clinton. What do you think of General Wesley Clark
and would you support him as a presidential candidate?
I've known Wes for a long time. I'll tell you the reason he came out of Europe early
had to do with integrity and character issues, things that are very near and dear to my heart.
I'll just say Wes won't get my vote.
Tommy Franks, who led the effort in Iraq, said this, would you make a good president?
He said, absolutely not. Norman Schwarzkopf added, I do not know that Clark, I do know
that Clark has always been viewed as being very, very ambitious. I mean, he was fired
as a NATO commander, and when Hugh Shelton said he was fired because of matters of character
and integrity, that is a very, very damning statement, which says if that's the case,
he's not the right man for president as far as I'm concerned.
What is General Shelton referring to? Why were you given the axe as NATO commander?
Well, I don't know what he's referring to. At the time, he told me I was being replaced
so that Joe Ralston could take my position. I think what we had here was a policy disagreement
that Hugh Shelton let become personal. I'm sorry he did. He did not appreciate, and I
don't think the others in the Pentagon did either, what was going on in the Balkans.
They had a strategy that called for us to be prepared to fight in Iraq or Korea. There
wasn't supposed to be any trouble in Europe, and when I began to warn of it, it wasn't
well received. But I'd been on the joint staff, Tim, when we sat by and we let happen the
slaughter of 800,000 people in Rwanda, hacked to death by machetes. We talked about it.
We puttered. We came up with plans. We briefed them at the White House, but nothing happened,
and at the end, 800,000 people died. And I thought to myself, you know, that's a terrible
thing, and as I began to, I didn't know it at the time. It took a while to seep in. I
realized I'd done my duty, but just sort of doing your duty and preparing these plans,
that's not enough. I hadn't done my obligation. When I got into the Balkans.
When you were relieved of your duty, did General Shelton mention character integrity?
Oh, of course not.
Did anyone?
Absolutely not, absolutely not. They gave me the highest praise, two defense distinguished
service medals, the Presidential Medal of Freedom. I have no idea where this came from.
But Tim, I just want to underscore what this was really about. This is about policy differences.
I learned as a joint staff officer that you have an obligation to speak up.
Last night, a big event in Iowa. Hillary Clinton was there, most of the candidates. You decided
to bypass the Iowa caucuses. Jerry McEntee, the head of the AFSCME union, Tom Harkin,
the senator from Iowa, all said that this has doomed your candidacy. It wasn't a mistake
for you to bypass Iowa.
Well, I think it was inevitable, given when we got into the campaign. When you go into
a campaign like this, you've got to be present and you've got to raise money. So it's the
difference between sort of tactics and logistics in the military sense. You've got to get fuel
for the gas tank, but you've got to get to the front to meet to the voters.
You were 10 percent in New Hampshire a month ago. You're now down to five. You're spending
a million dollars in that state. Is New Hampshire make or break for you?
Well, I think New Hampshire is going to be very important, and I think we'll do very
well in New Hampshire. In these polls, you know, there's a lot of jockeying back and
forth. I don't put a whole lot of stock in them. We've had our office open there about
two or three weeks. We're just hiring employees. We just did our first Convass yesterday, and
I'm getting a tremendously positive response. So I'm very encouraged about New Hampshire.
Growth is at 7.2 percent, the headline of USA Today. The tax refunds are going to go
up 27 percent. If the economy is strong, can George Bush be beaten?
This is not about the economy, Tim, at home. It's about jobs. It's about people of all
ages who've lost their jobs. Many of them are now employed. But losing a good job and
taking another job can devastate a family. When you lose your job in this country, usually
you lose a piece of your self-respect. And I've talked to person after person across
this country, and they describe the devastating impact on families of men who are executives
who are now selling automobiles. That's not statistics.
Will Iraq be an issue in this campaign? It will be likely an issue. The President's
going to do everything he can to draw down forces there, say there's an election, and
take care of it. But you know, the way this insurgency is going on the ground, I think
it's unlikely that the fighting's going to disappear. I think it's going to be a very
messy process. General Leslie Clark, to be continued, we thank
you very much for sharing your views. Thank you.
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And we are back. Throughout our nation's history, 12 military generals have served as President
of the United States. But only one in this century, Dwight D. Eisenhower, from 1953
to 1961. Do military men make good presidents? Differing opinions from poet Carl Sandberg
in 1957 and Army Chief of Staff General J. Lawton Collins in 1951.
We've had two professional military men as presidents, Grant and Eisenhower. What do
you think about the military man in politics? It's a hindrance. It's a hindrance. Of course,
he's had the advantage of having had life as a civilian for a number of years before
he went into the war and right after the war. But Ike had 15 years in the Philippines, comes
back to this country and almost immediately sent over to Europe. All sorts of things about
the plain people of this country that he doesn't know even though he did work in the creamery
in Abilene. In other words, you think it's hard for a man who lives within this caste
system to maintain a hold on the people. Yes. Let the military men stay with the military.
Now you've been a military man all your life and you're a general. Do you think a general
ought to be president or do you think the president ought to be a civilian? I would
say that any military man to be a good president must be a man who has very broad capacities.
I think that as a general proposition, it's wiser that a civilian be the president of
the United States. But I don't by any manner of means feel that a military man should be
ruled out of being president if he has the broad qualities to make a good president.
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Come on. Come on. If it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press. Go Bills.