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I'm Roger Sodden.
I make the original shredded wheat at Post Cereals.
When my kids were little, I didn't have much luck getting any shredded wheat, but then they
grew up.
And look what I got.
Hi, Grandpa.
Two more chances.
I like frosted.
I like honey nut.
Our frosted shredded wheat has got frosting on the outside and a touch of brown sugar
on the inside.
Where?
Then we got a little nutty.
Thank you, Grandpa.
What about us?
Looks like I got my work cut off for me now.
They claim, the Kettlemen do, that her remarks caused what is now known as the Oprah crash,
a temporary drop in beef prices that resulted, we are told, in a loss of millions, at least
temporarily to the cattle industry.
This is right up my alley.
I have a PhD in nutrition from UC Berkeley, and for 20 years I've written books about
this very issue.
These ranchers are crazy.
It's going to be thrown out on the federal level as it ought to be.
If you're going to start to let every special interest group dictate what can and cannot
be said, that is the absolute end of free speech and freedom of the press.
Oprah Winfrey should be given a Pulitzer Prize for that show.
I think that a gag order is a horrible device that only encourages deception, because lawyers
don't stop talking to their favorite reporters, they just do it clandestinely.
Who passes laws like this?
Why does Texas have a law like this, which protects the cattle growers and not the consumer?
In other words, if you would have consumers have their rights basically being obliterated
if people like you or Oprah couldn't get on television or the newspaper and say exactly
what Oprah said.
This law is obviously unconstitutional, but I don't even think it's going to be challenged
on that basis, from what I understand.
You think she's going to win it on the facts?
I absolutely do.
Should we all be defendants in a suit now?
I mean, the discussion I've heard on this show, which is an open forum, has been an
intelligent discussion, doesn't seem any bit different than the discussion that puts Oprah
and her program in the defendancy.
I don't like when special interests get special breaks, and it seems to me that this is a
bit of intimidation, and I don't like it.
To me, that stinks, and that's just the way I feel about it.
I predict Oprah is going to win big time.
Again, Geraldo, thank you.
Thank you for all your reports.
I couldn't talk about it, but everybody else was, as you saw.
I wasn't the only one who moved to Amarillo for six weeks.
There was a leader of reporters who set up camp at the courthouse.
Take a look.
I work at KAMR, the Oprah affiliate here in Amarillo, and been camped out here at Camp
Oprah for the last six weeks.
At the beginning, you couldn't even move in this place.
There's tents all along the front of the courthouse, satellite trucks.
It's a circus atmosphere, kind of like the McVeigh and Nichols trial.
Being from Oklahoma City, I was sent to Denver to cover that, so somewhat used to this atmosphere.
Covering the Oprah trial has been crazy.
You come to a small panhandle town in West Texas.
I was born and raised in Texas, and this is what people in Texas wait for, a big showdown
like this.
Put it quite simply, you have a black African-American female facing the good old boy in Texas.
This is a fight, and we want to see who's going to win.
During the past six weeks, you probably saw my next guest on TV covering every move and
motion of the trial, NBC News correspondent Dan Abrams, from our hometown station WLS-TV
anchor and reporter Jim Rosenfield, and from Amarillo's KAMR TV, Jennifer Davis.
We would watch you in the morning on our way to the trial, and we would know that it was
time to get in the van when you did the 1825 cut-in, Jennifer.
Jennifer's on, gotta go.
I don't know what I'm going to do now that you're leaving town.
What are you going to record on tomorrow?
I don't know.
I'd really like you to stay a little bit longer.
Gotta go.
I want you to go home.
You want me to go home, because you want to go home.
What was your perspective?
I thought, especially the day that you testified, the few days you testified probably felt like
a week.
What struck me most was how serious these jurors were.
Didn't you find it hard to connect with them?
I was trying, in my own subtle way, because the judge had ordered us to make absolutely
no contact with the jurors, to the point where even if you're in the hallway, you're not
even allowed to speak to them.
But I would try to get, when I say I was trying, I mean, I'm trying to get some kind of reading
like, oh, nothing.
And there wasn't much there, was there?
Zero.
That's why I was totally surprised by today's verdict, because I had released it, I was totally
surprised.
You were expecting to lose?
I was expecting hung or lose, hung or lose, because there were people who, sitting on
the jury, I thought, never made eye contact, not even, you know, passing, and they passed
me every day.
That's different from these audiences, right?
Yeah.
Like, yes.
And I, you know, I wanted to have the jurors here today, but I'm not allowed to have contact
with the jurors.
The judge ordered that I was not to have any contact with the jurors, the plaintiffs, the
lawyers, or the parties, or the parties.
I now have her accent, or the parties concerned, or to have any contact.
Otherwise, I would love to know what they were thinking.
Love to.
So, Dan, what was your perspective?
They were serious, weren't they?
Yeah, I mean, these were jurors who were paying close attention, and this is complicated stuff
in this case.
Yes.
I mean, this is not just like a murder trial where the question is, did the person do it
or not?
There are these complicated legal standards, and all these questions they have to answer
about of and concerning, and false and disparaging, and then go on to the issue of exemplary damages
and hedging and this and that.
I mean, you know, this is not easy stuff.
There are days that we came out, there was one day when we came out, and there were three
rows of media, and we came out, and not a single one of us had agreed on what had happened
inside that courtroom.
Really?
Yes.
We tried to talk to the attorneys.
We begged them.
What took place?
Please help me explain this to our viewer.
Exactly.
Well, was that the day when they went through the cattle price, when Chick Babcock went
through those cattle prices, the cattle lot and feed number stayed by every lot, and feed
number, and the price of each cattle, and the weight of each cattle?
I thought I was going to lose my mind, free me.
You know, in Amistad, there's this line, we would slyly pass notes because I didn't want
the judge.
I was scared of the judge.
We were, too.
Totally scared of the judge.
We were, too.
Totally scared that she was going to look at me, because remember the day she reprimanded
the other side, the plaintiffs, because they were making faces, I thought, oh my God, was
my face doing something?
Anyway, so I would try to slide a note underneath my leg, and I had slid a note to somebody,
and it made them laugh, and I thought, gee, I'm going to get thrown out of the courtroom.
There were certain days that would go on for so many hours at a time that by about 3.30
in the afternoon, you'd start to get delirious.
You'd sat there for so long, you'd listen to so much scientific and economic information.
We couldn't leave to go to the bathroom as you know.
We couldn't leave at all.
We couldn't leave to make a phone call to let the folks back home know what was going
on.
That's right.
Those were the judge's rules.
And so your other perspective was, Dan?
You know, the difficulty of the facts in this case also, I mean, there were so many, again,
it wasn't just the law.
There was also so many different facts.
And watching the jurors, you know, they couldn't take any notes.
But watching the fact that they seemed to be staying awake for most of the testimony.
Never could have.
No, no, no, no.
And I'm not joking.
I have such respect for these jurors.
In a lot of trials, you see even an interesting, I mean, I'm not saying this trial wasn't
interesting, but there were certainly times when this was one of the less interesting
trials that I've covered.
And the fact that the jurors were actually staying awake, because you see jurors fall
asleep a lot in cases.
And these jurors...
I had that chart memorized.
I bet they did, too.
The price of feeder cattle on April 16th, $58.88.
Not $61.90.
But you know what?
While it did get rather dry and incredibly repetitive at times, it more than made up
for it outside the courthouse.
Because I have to tell you...
From our side, the defense...
We took four days.
Well, it was just that at times...
It took four weeks.
Well, when we went through the transcript of that show in question, line by line, and
you were on the stand and asked to explain what you meant or what was meant, line by
line...
When I was trying to define and defend...
I think one of the jurors was nodding.
Really?
When I was trying to defend the but, when the plaintiff says, and what did you mean
by but?
Oh, my goodness.
Was there ever a day when you were here in the six weeks when you were thinking to yourself...
You said earlier today, you never offered a settlement, nothing.
Is there ever a time when you said to yourself, God, this can't be worth it, having to sit
through all of this...
Well, I tell you some of the harder days for me...
You were insulted, too, in the court.
I was insulted and called a liar and told I was malicious and had ill will and all that.
But the hardest days for me, I mean, really, the very first time I heard the people who
were suing me say that they, too, were in favor of the ban...
Every time my lawyer would argue a point on cross that would get them to agree with what
I had said, I was just incredulous, like, well, why am I here?
Why am I here?
And so for a long time, as I said yesterday, is that it took me about a week or two to
really acknowledge the fact that this was happening.
And our legal analyst said to me one night, you're here, get over it, get on with it.
That was Phil McGraw.
And that really helped me a lot because I was like, why am I being sued?
Every time we'd have a meeting, why am I being sued?
Get over it.
You are being sued and now let's deal with it.
We had some run-ins with the law also while we were here.
Who did?
You did?
Well, I did, yes.
Outside the courthouse.
I mean, these rules, this place is tough.
Oh, my goodness.
Judge Mary Lou did not allow, that's what I heard, and I didn't wear pants.
I was running out of skirts to wear.
Judge Mary Lou Robinson does not allow the women who, over the bar, to wear pants in
the courtroom.
Right.
And I come from a pantsuit town, you know, and so I was pulling out every skirt I had
and repeating it.
My favorite moment outside of the trial was when you came outside.
The skirts didn't seem to hamper you much at all because there was one morning when
you came out during the morning break, first time you'd ever left the courthouse in the
morning, totally threw up photographers for a loop.
They grabbed their cameras and you started to walk around the building.
Yeah.
Full-length skirt down to her ankles.
Oh, that was our running day.
Her running day.
In high heels.
Tired for breathless.
Two-inch heel boots, and our photographers started to follow her around the block.
She ran and left them in her dust.
She left them in her dust.
I made the mistake of trying to cross the street.
It was the lunch break.
And as you know, there were only a certain number of reporters allowed in that courtroom
every day.
There was a four-hour pass in the morning, 7.30 in the morning, and then at the lunch
break you surrendered the pass and you had to pick it back up at one o'clock to get back
in.
Really?
And I was going to get my colleagues some lunch so that they'd hold my place in line
so that I could get back in to hear your testimony.
And I almost got arrested for jaywalking.
They mean what they say and say what they mean.
He took my license and said, Chicago, you're going to have to post $200 in cash.
Really?
I was just hoping that my colleagues were going to come to my aid because I didn't have
$200 in cash.
Well, I know you all have stories to do.
I appreciate it.
Thank you very much.
I know you had to remain objective.
Did you think the verdict would be what it was?
I thought that by law it probably would be, but with libel cases you just never know what
juries are going to do, so I wasn't sure.
I thought, like you did, that it might be a hung jury.
They had to come up with a unanimous vote.
By this morning we thought possibly hung jury, 12 unanimous votes.
We weren't sure.
Yeah.
Just weren't sure.
I was surprised, thrilled, and happy about it.
When we come back, thank you all so much.
When we come back, make it legal to you.
That set me free!
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