Hello, I'm Chuck Smith.
And I'm Carol Matriciana.
Welcome to this edition of The Pagan Invasion.
Modern meditation is a religious practice that has successfully penetrated the ranks
of mainstream American society.
Unknown to most, however, is the fact that this is exactly what was planned and hoped
for by a group of Indian mystics just over a hundred years ago.
It was during the 19th century out of Calcutta, the black magic capital of India, that Parahamsa
Madhavi Saji emerged as an enthusiastic reformer of yoga.
He deliberately changed the packaging of this ancient religious practice so as to make it
more acceptable to the Western mindset.
Since that time, a new, modern scientific approach, having been aggressively marketed
by leading gurus and their disciples, has now taken root in the American consciousness.
Yoga and meditation were originally intended to be used only by the elderly who were nearing
death.
The yoga positions, the chanting, and meditative state were designed to put the practitioner
in contact with the Hindu deities who are said to be able to guide them into their next
phase of reincarnation.
The physical body would experience a controlled heartbeat and breath rate along with a mind
that is deadened to reality.
This would then supposedly make the entry into death easier and less traumatic.
How incredibly ironic it is then that this ancient practice which was designed to assist
the aged Hindu in dying is today being used by vibrant young businessmen, athletes, and
even children for achieving better, healthier living.
Today, yoga and meditation is promoted as an exercise to relieve stress and worry and
offers escape from the confusion of everyday life.
It is acknowledged to lower blood pressure and claims to offer freedom from poverty and
suffering by supplying good health and wealth.
Yoga and meditation have now been incorporated into a number of branches of medicine.
Many large businesses require their employees to practice it, hoping to stimulate higher
productivity.
Members of the United Nations and the Pentagon are encouraged to meditate before considering
major decisions.
And public school students in many instances are required to participate in Hindu rituals
of yoga and meditation despite the separation of church and state.
The danger lies in the fact that despite its packaging, despite its surface benefits, and
despite its claims to the contrary, meditation remains as it was originally designed, a religious
practice used for making contact with a dark spiritual realm.
In this report, we will be asking the question, is Eastern meditation the answer to Western
society's ills, or is it a pathway to deception?
India, land of mystery, is the seventh largest land mass and second most populated nation
in the world.
It is rich in resources and manpower, yet its people are among the poorest and most
suffering on earth.
Millions of Indians suffer from malnutrition, disease, and poverty.
The people are apathetic because their religion has taught them to be detached observers,
disregarding the agonizing lifestyle which imprisons them.
I was a member of the social service league at the college, and we were trying to do what
we could to help people in the villages.
A gentleman who was head of the department of Hindi came around to us and said, why are
you doing this?
These people who are suffering in the villages, sick or diseased or whatever, have come to
earth in this state because they have done something wrong in their past lives.
Now, no matter what you do to them, if you cut short their suffering in this life, what
will happen is they will simply come back in their next life in the same state or a
worse state.
So you're really wasting your time.
It is part of the world of illusion, and the goal is to withdraw and detach yourself from
it.
So there's no high view of, say, social action or compassion or an outrage concern to see
justice in this world.
On the contrary, if you do things like that, very often you're just tinkering with a person's
karma.
They believe that when a person suffers, that that is what he's due as a result of the law
of karma, because you've done something very sinful in this lifetime or in a past lifetime,
so there's very little compassion.
One just was taught to ignore all of the dreadful, I mean, the intolerable poverty and suffering
of India.
There were beggars clustering around the gates of the ashram day and night, children starving,
living in little huts surrounding what was supposed to be a religious community.
The contradiction was disgusting to me, but most of the sannyasins failed to notice it.
It appeared not to bother them in the least.
We feel that the cause of suffering is within, and so to allow people to experience peace
themselves, we teach courses in meditation.
They seek to escape suffering by numbing their emotions and compassion through meditation.
Although the Hindu tries to convince himself that suffering is only in his mind, an illusion
as he calls it, Maya, at the same time he believes that he has to suffer again and again
by forever being forced to return to this world through reincarnation.
All the gurus that I know of in the Western world teach reincarnation, a doctrine very
central to Hinduism.
Reincarnation is all about dying and coming back to this world in one form or the other.
Hare Krishna people believe in transmigration of the soul, as they prefer to call it, traveling
from body to body to body.
These physical bodies don't last forever, even though the soul does, so in the same
way that a driver needs to change cars, in the same way we need to change from one body
to another.
Gandhi called reincarnation a burden too great to bear, yet it is being eagerly embraced
in the West in diluted form as part of a patent blend of Hinduism and Zen Buddhism, camouflaged
with psychological terminology.
This new age religion is promoted through thousands of worldwide networks and hundreds
of major gatherings, such as this mind-body-spirit festival held in Los Angeles.
It is a westernized version of India's Kumbh Mela and promotes many of the same gurus and
practices from astrology and palmistry to psychic readings, healings, and meditations.
The festival, now international, was started in London in 1977 by Graham Wilson.
He explains the New Age interpretation of reincarnation as an upward evolution to a
higher species of mankind.
We don't just reincarnate as an individual soul into a new body each time, but more as
a collective consciousness of souls, which is why I think we have access to a lot more
information than we realize.
I noticed that in the Western world, reincarnation has become something of a fad.
However, in India and in Asia as a whole, reincarnation is certainly not a fad.
It is a form of punishment.
Within Hinduism, reincarnation is considered to be a terrible concept.
The aim of the Hindu's religion is to somehow try and escape from this endless imprisonment
of life and death, and the means by which they believe one can get out of this hopeless
trap is through the practice of yoga.
Yoga goes all the way back to the Hindu god Shiva, who is called Yogeshwara, meaning Lord
of Yoga.
You find yoga being taught in several of the major Hindu scriptures.
Krishna, one of the many Hindu gods, was an advocate of yoga.
Yoga is also mentioned in the Gita as the main means to attaining salvation.
The word means, basically, to yoke, union.
The goal of the Hindu is to be yoked with Brahman.
Brahman is the Hindu concept of God, the All or the Absolute.
Dave Hunt is an internationally recognized cult expert and bestselling author of more
than a dozen books dealing with Eastern mysticism, psychic phenomenon, cults and the occult.
I recently asked Dave to share his thoughts concerning the Eastern religious concepts
of meditation, reincarnation and karma.
Karma says that what you sow, you will reap.
If I am a husband in this life who beats his wife, I must come back in the next life as
a wife who is beaten by her husband, which means that then my husband in that life must
come back as a wife who is beaten by her husband, and it goes on and on.
If I am a murderer, I must become the victim of a murder, which means that the one who
murders me must then become the victim of a murder.
So karma does not solve the problem of evil, it perpetuates evil.
Now whether you want to believe it or not, in contrast, the Bible says, yes, we do suffer
the consequences of our deeds, but at the hands of a righteous God who has made a provision
for our sins through God Himself becoming a man to die for our sins.
And if we accept His payment of the judgment we deserve, then we're forgiven.
So the Bible does offer a solution to evil, whereas karma, in my opinion, does not.
Gandhi called reincarnation a burden too great to bear, yet more than 60% of people today
in the West believe in this.
Why do they find it so appealing?
Gandhi said, as you just told me, it's a burden too great to bear.
It's considered punishment in the East.
It's popularized and fantasized in the West, and it's put off as some kind of an escape.
And so they imagine they're escaping God's judgment.
The Bible says it's a point when a man wants to die after this, the judgment.
They don't want to face God in judgment.
They'd rather believe they can come back and have another chance.
And so I think it's a delusion.
It's a misunderstanding of what reincarnation really is that causes people to want it.
I remember a young man who had been a professing Christian came to see me one night to tell
me he believed in reincarnation.
He was going to shake me up, I guess.
And I said, well, do you know anything about reincarnation?
Oh, yeah, he said, I could end up a bug in the next life or a tree or something.
And I looked at him and I said, I can't believe you.
You will not allow Jesus Christ to guide your life and to solve the problem of sin and to
lead you into heaven.
But you will turn yourself over to some impersonal law of karma that could turn you into a bug
or a tree.
You've got to be insane.
It's hard to believe why people would embrace something like this.
But they think it's an escape from the judgment of God.
Dave, could you explain the purpose of yoga in relation to reincarnation?
The Hindu talks about a wheel of reincarnation.
It goes on and on forever and forever.
And the only escape is through yoga.
Well, who said so?
Who proved it?
As a matter of fact, it doesn't work.
It doesn't make sense.
I mean, if I have to suffer for my sin, how can I escape from that penalty, the law of
karma, by going into an altered state of consciousness and realizing that I'm God?
It's a delusion to imagine that I'm God and that this somehow is going to dissolve this
law of karma.
But that's the teaching, that through yoga you can escape the wheel of reincarnation,
the consequences of the law of karma.
When people involve themselves in some of these Eastern practices like yoga or stress
management, do you think they consciously make a decision to follow the religion of
Hinduism?
Some people realize they're involved in something that came from the East.
They probably don't associate it with Hinduism.
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, as you know, deliberately lies.
He says it is not religion, has nothing to do with religion, it's purely scientific,
as a matter of fact.
It is Hinduism and comes right out of the Hindu Vedas.
It's not always called yoga, but very often it is called yoga in the YMCAs across America.
But they don't think that this is religion.
So I think most people don't consciously get involved in Hinduism.
They think they're buying into health when they're getting Hinduism.
They think they're getting science when in fact they're getting religion.
Could you tell us some of the ways that Eastern meditation is practiced in our society today?
Well we have to go back first and remember what it's about.
There's a pagan invasion.
Paul defines paganism in Romans chapter 1.
They worship the creation instead of the creator.
So it's an attempt to find the reality, the solution to all problems within, in creation
around me and in myself, in my consciousness.
So any system out there that we have in the Western world, which is an attempt to manipulate
reality by going within, getting in this altered state of consciousness, it could be in success
motivation techniques that are taught in the business world that buy the power of my mind
through positive affirmations, through visualization, through developing my potential, the whole
human potential movement is really based upon the same premise that yoga and reincarnation
are based upon.
It's very pervasive.
It's in sports, in the sports world, developing super powers.
Somehow we can, through the mind, create a new reality and become super beings.
Literally, it's the lie of the serpent in the Garden of Eden that we can be God and
that we have these powers within.
It's in the hospitals, it's in the medical profession, ways of healing, supposedly.
Even in the Pentagon, they have a meditation club headed by Ed Winchester who imagines
that they're going to create peace by meditation, a psychic shield of peace around the world.
In orthodox Hinduism, yoga and meditation are important religious rituals designed to
stimulate occult powers that are necessary for the reincarnation process, yet most people
who practice these techniques are unaware of their origins or dangers.
Let's continue our investigation by examining the various types of yoga and meditations
that are being sold today here in the West.
Yoga in its many westernized forms is also at the heart of the New Age movement that
has adopted Hinduism's basic beliefs and goals.
In spite of the seeming variety in hundreds of competitive schools of yoga, all forms
come out of India and lead into the occult, though most westerners are not aware of this.
Yoga techniques include breathing exercises or prana, positions called asanas, dissolving
the mind known as leya, psychic powers called sidhis, repetitious chanting named mantra,
and deliberately cultivating black magic known as tantra.
In my extensive travels in India, I have encountered a number of westerners who have got into Hinduism
and began following Hindu gurus as a result of a very simple initiation into a yoga class.
Yoga is in many ways the heart of Hinduism.
There is no Hinduism without yoga, and there is no yoga without Hinduism.
Although there are many types of yoga, the one most familiar in the West often passes
for physical exercise and is called hatha yoga.
It promises mental and physical health, but its Hindu roots and real goal to yoke with
Brahman are seldom taught.
Ellen believes that raja yoga, or yoga of the mind, is the highest form of Hinduism.
The Brahmakumaris' raja yoga is a form of meditation where the soul begins to understand
itself clearly and has a connection with the supreme being.
Raj means royal and yoga means union, so the link with the supreme being.
And through this yoga, I become the ruler over my own self, over my mind and my life.
Johanna Michelson, former yoga teacher and assistant to a psychic surgeon, tells of her
experiences in the occult in her autobiography, The Beautiful Side of Evil.
Another word for mantra is charm, or to cast a spell, if you will.
And in mantra yoga, a word or a phrase or the name of a demon god is repeated over and
over and over again to bring the individual to a vibration level that will attract that
which is being chanted for, to bring about the desired effect.
It's exactly what the white witches and magicians, so called, use in the casting of their spells.
We were always told, no, it's just a meaningless sound, had nothing to do with Hindu gods.
But every time a person would sit down, they'd be invoking a Hindu god by thinking that mantra
over and over again, be stronger in their life.
The chant goes, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare
Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, 108 mantras is one round, and they chant that 16 times a
day that takes two hours to do every day.
That's the minimum requirement the guru exacts from that.
It's sometimes referred to as a hypnotizing or brainwash technique, because whenever you're
having a problem or running into some confrontation, you retreat to the security of the chanting
instead of thinking a problem through.
George Harrison of the Beatles made mantra yoga acceptable to the world through his song
My Sweet Lord, where he incorporated the chant to a Hindu god, Hare Krishna, simultaneously
with the biblical shout of praise, hallelujah.
He said he did this deliberately to show that both religions are the same and to make Hinduism
more acceptable.
To pretend that all religions are the same is dishonest, as is the merger of various
religious techniques.
For instance, more and more Christians use the name Jesus much like a mantra.
They claim that it's a tool to get them into the presence of God.
Jesus said that repetitious prayer is not acceptable to God.
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, originator of TM, claims to have put Eastern meditation on the mystical
map.
With over three million followers, TM is the largest guru movement ever to invade the West.
The Beatles, much publicized visit to Maharishi's community in India in the 60s, convinced their
millions of fans that TM, the so-called scientific yoga, was an even more powerful way to bliss
consciousness than drugs.
What makes TM unique and different from any other practice that's going on today is that
it offers enlightenment very quickly.
I started experiencing being lost in this state of awareness called the absolute.
In essence, Maharishi taught that we all come from that nothingness and that is the source
of all our consciousness, of all of our thinking and everything we do.
Maharishi's primary thrust is the marketing of his Siddhi yoga, which is designed to develop
psychic powers such as levitation.
These courses, like most guru programs, cost thousands of dollars.
Rob was able to finance his advanced training through government student loans, totaling
$6,000.
During these sessions, it's a very strange environment.
The people speak in tongues, they yell and they scream, they talk in foreign languages.
It's like a madhouse and it's real crazy.
Everyone's bouncing around on foam pads, flying up in the air.
Rajneesh is one of India's most controversial gurus, largely because of his endorsement
of shocking sexual practices as a prerequisite for salvation.
His brand of yoga called dynamic meditation is a new age combination of Hinduism and psychotherapies.
This exercise involving rigorous breathing and hyperventilation is designed to arouse
the serpent force called Kundalini, which the gurus believe lies coiled at the base
of the spine.
I did dynamic meditation every day.
We also called it Kundalini meditation.
It starts off with a cathartic breathing and the reason for it is just to move your energy
and to get you out of your head and into your body and you just breathe.
The next phase, the screaming phase of dynamic meditation feels like when you finally had
an opportunity to throw a tantrum when you were a little kid.
By the time you get to the third phase of jumping up and down and yelling who, you're
hardly there at all and so it's pretty hard to remember what happens when you're there.
I guess the closest thing I can associate it with is mindlessness.
You get to a place where your mind actually leaves your body.
Your body's just jumping up and down and your voice from your gut is yelling who and you're
not doing it anymore.
You become one with this whole energy.
The next phase in dynamic is the quiet space.
Then you'll stop and you've just been doing 30 minutes of intense catharsis and what happens
after being in such incredibly intense movement for so long is just a feeling of peacefulness
and stillness.
My mind actually stops and I feel a oneness with the whole universe.
There have been glowing reports published giving credit to the gurus and their pseudo
psychological techniques but neglecting to mention the thousands of cases of emotional
and mental breakdowns, insanity, suicide, beatings, murder, rapes going on in gurus
centers, various gurus centers worldwide.
It is alarming to realize these dangerous techniques for enlightenment are being incorporated
in psychotherapies, self-help seminars and are even being accepted in mainstream Protestant
and Catholic churches and seminaries.
One of the fastest growing yogas in the West today is Tantra, seductively offered as an
exotic means for enhancing one's sexual experiences.
Like all yoga, it is designed to provoke possession by Hindu spirits in order to break the chain
of reincarnation.
In Tantra, advanced disciples indulge in the most degenerate behavior from human sacrifices
to sexual perversion and sorcery.
Tantra yoga is the extreme expression of Hinduism.
If you will, it's the black and so-called white magic in which the Shakti, the Kundalini
force is aroused, the psychic powers that accompany it are in full bloom, and the individual,
depending on his personal preference, can channel this force either into the black magic,
which includes rites of meditating upon severed heads, human heads in India, and eating bits
of flesh and the unconsumed parts of the cremation rites and other practices, horrifying practices,
or they can take it into what they call the white magic, part of it, in which they are
using this power, this force, for healing, for the benefit of mankind, if you will.
Yet Anton Lavey, the pope of the first church of Satan, has said it very explicitly.
He said that to believe there's any such thing as white magic is mythology.
There is no such thing as white magic.
All of it has its source in occult psychic power, and it has nothing whatever to do with
God.
Toby is a yoga teacher at the Scandinavian Yoga and Meditation School in Aarhus, Denmark,
which promotes Tantra yoga.
Tantra means to free the mind through expanding the awareness.
That means to be able to meet more and more of the reality in everyday life.
In India, meditation is designed to separate the practitioner from his surroundings.
How does this differ from the biblical way to cope with our present stresses and problems?
First of all, you can't escape from your surroundings by going within, you know, and fantasizing,
imagining that you have control, that you have escape.
The surroundings are still there, the problems are still there.
There's a difference between meditation, as we've noted in the West, which has always
meant contemplation.
For example, Psalm 1 says, in his law, God's word, does he meditate day and night?
Psalm 119, he talks about meditating upon his statutes, his precepts, his laws.
But in the East, meditation has the opposite meaning.
It means you tune it out.
You don't contemplate, but you get into an altered state of consciousness.
You may focus on a flickering flame, or the tip of your nose, or the third eye in the
middle of your forehead, or whatever, but the whole idea is to tune out, to release
yourself from conscious thought, and from time, space, and the elements, and everything
around you, and to get into another state, because they believe that we create reality
with our minds.
And so, if you can just blank it out, it doesn't work, it doesn't go away.
We don't create reality with our minds.
I didn't create the atom, for example, the stars, the distant galaxies.
There's a whole universe within the atom that our scientists haven't even discovered,
and to suggest that my mind has created my reality, I mean, pardon me, it's ludicrous.
What are some of the mental and spiritual dangers of Eastern meditation?
Well, one of the most obvious is disillusionment.
I mean, when you find out you can't manipulate reality with your mind, and you've been told
you could.
You even have lawsuits now, some horrendous cases.
For example, someone who got into LifeSpring and thought that they could manipulate reality
with their mind.
I remember one case of a woman who thought she could turn a red light to green, you know,
with her mind.
And she drove through a red light and had a wreck.
Well, she sued, and I think she got 800,000 damages, something like that.
But there can be a horrible disillusionment.
But the spiritual side of it is even worse.
For example, W. Brute Joy, who was a medical doctor who got involved in Eastern mysticism,
became a guru.
He says, not one person knows what psychic power is, and of course, that's what you
develop in the states of consciousness, or all of its aspects, and no one has ever known,
despite attempts over thousands of years to master this knowledge.
So you're playing with fire.
That's what astonishes me, that these people would do it.
He says, tapping these energies is fire, and the consequences can be psychosis, aggravation
of neuroses, acceleration of disease processes, and suicide.
So here's a man who says, hey, the water's full of piranhas, but if you dive in and swim
fast enough, you might get to the other side, and if you do, you got some terrific powers
waiting for you.
There are horrible dangers, but the worst danger is spirit contact.
And that's what this whole thing is designed for, to make contact with the spirit world,
to pick up spirit guides.
And I have talked with many people in yoga, have made contact with spirit entities that
have led them down a horrendous path of evil and destruction.
I remember a friend of mine who was one of the leading rebirthers, it's another way it
comes in.
They regress you back, I mean, it's in psychology and psychotherapy, and they regress you back
and you relive this birthing process.
And he became a Christian, and he said that after his observation of this whole New Age
scene out there, he became convinced that these techniques were specifically designed
to break open doors and knock down barriers that God has placed within us to prevent a
demonic invasion.
And of course, that's what the whole pagan world is about.
One of the reasons the Judeo-Christian Bible warns against involvement with the occult,
such as tantric yoga and meditation, is because it is said to open one up to spiritual deception
by demonic powers, whose very purpose is to lead people away from knowing the true God.
Tragically, many Christians, after naively practicing these techniques, have felt compelled
to alter or reject their beliefs.
A common byproduct of meditation is the replacement of God with oneself.
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, originator of Transcendental Meditation, said that the purpose of his meditation
is to be still and know that I, the practitioner, am God.
After meditating, singer John Denver was quoted as saying, I can do anything.
One of these days, I will be God.
Actress and best-selling author Shirley MacLaine claims that meditation helped her to realize
that she was God.
Although yoga is sold to the West through various gimmicks and techniques, its basic
occultism remains the same.
The hope of immortality is at its heart, and the dream of realizing one's own inherent
divinity is its ultimate purpose, becoming a Christ, they call it.
Despite the claims that yoga is only physical and non-religious, it is the very essence
of Hinduism's spirituality.
It eventually leads to the realm of the spiritual, to meditation, where the person looks into
himself to find the true self, and in finding the true self, he believes he's finding God.
You know, the frightening thing to me now, if I look back, is I started having the experience
that I was God, and as God, I could completely structure my life in my universe exactly the
way I wanted it.
The breathing exercises are designed to teach you to absorb the prana, the energy life force
in the cosmos, to channel it into the chakras, the psychic channels, thus awakening the Shakti
force, the Kundalini force, and bringing about those psychic powers, which are such an integral
and prevalent part in yoga.
So very slowly, let's breathe in through our nose, very slowly, breathe in, breathe out.
There are many dangers in the breathing techniques.
Even the writers and the proponents of these exercises are quick to warn that not only
do these things trigger emotional and mental diseases, which have been known to place people
even in insane asylums for the rest of their lives, but they also recognize that these
exercises can open your soul and your mind and your entire being to a takeover by demonic
forces.
Many people don't realize this, but it's terribly dangerous to go into a meditative state in
which the mind is simply left blank, and that ultimately is the purpose of the meditations
in yoga.
It's like opening the door to a room.
Whatever comes through, you have no control over.
Many argue that certain yoga techniques can be used as merely exercise, yet that is not
yoga's intention.
It can be compared to joining the military.
While a soldier may get stronger and more vigorous, the purpose of the army is certainly
not health care.
The aim is to learn how to kill, and so it is with yoga.
All yogic exercise was designed to kill the will, mind, and emotions, hence releasing
the soul from the endless cycle of reincarnation.
I thought I was being strengthened, but what I was really doing is flipping into an altered
state of consciousness, a form of self-hypnosis, which is very weakening to the mind and to
the body.
But this weakness made me afraid to give it up.
The biggest danger I found in practicing transcendental meditation was the dependency on the technique
itself.
It's kind of like drugs.
A drug addict doesn't want to give up his drugs because the experience is so pleasing,
and he feels his life will crumble around him if he doesn't have it.
I thought I'd have the experience of leaving Shangri-La and all of a sudden turning old
and weak and disintegrating.
I was afraid that I would lose my clarity and my energy, but little did I know when
I did give it up, I gained all these things that I never had when I meditated.
In Psalm 1, David speaks about God's blessed man.
One of his characteristics is that he meditated in the law of God both day and night.
Paul, when writing to the Philippians, told them that whatsoever things were pure, whatsoever
things were good, whatsoever things were holy, think on these things.
The result would be that the God of peace would keep your heart and your mind.
And so would the Christian, as we meditate upon the Lord, the things of the Lord.
It is far different from the meditation of the East, which is an emptying of your mind
in order that these visions or these imaginations might come in and fill the void that is there.
Christian meditation is not creating a mental void.
It is actually concentrating on the glory of God, the blessedness of God, and the things
of God, which brings the true peace of God to our lives.
Satan's counterfeit will lead to a false sense of peace, but in the end will lead to
turmoil.
Do not accept Satan's substitute, but keep your heart and mind centered upon the Lord
and upon Jesus Christ, and you'll find the richness of His peace filling your heart continually.
Within all of us, there is a God-shaped vacuum.
Throughout the ages, man has attempted to fill that void with the things of the world,
but it is only through a relationship with our Creator that we can be truly satisfied.
His holy Scriptures reveal the way in which we can be reconciled to God, and that is through
the provisions of His Son, Jesus Christ.
I'm Chuck Smith, and I'm Carol Matricciana.
Join us again for another edition of The Pagan Invasion.