Reacting, all this time later, do you feel a sense of frustration? Do you feel a sense of anger? What is your feeling?
There are a lot of feelings of frustration and anger. We, the grand jury, had been accused of a whitewash, of covering up, and that's much further in the story.
But those feelings are still alive today. And with the information that has come forth in Leo's book, and the great research he's done,
it explains what went on in that time frame, that 10-hour gap, for example.
It also explained the political pressure that was being brought upon the grand jury to do its job as it should have done, or should have been able to do.
How could you do the job when you didn't know the truth, because nobody talked to you?
Well, there's a lot of talking going on day one, or day two, after the accident. I had discussions with the district attorney.
I'm going to ask you to put the proceedings of the grand jury on hold a second. I want to get Kennedy to the next morning when he finally makes the report,
but we have to take a break. Our focus, what really happened at Chappaquiddick. We'll be right back.
Leo and Leslie, we're running out of time. We have to get the rest of the story told.
Our audience has a million questions, as I'm sure the viewing audience has at home.
They get to the landing. There is no ferry. Let me help you. Let me accelerate the process.
Senator Ted Kennedy, almost impulsively, because there's no ferry and he wants to get to the main island, jumps in the water, you say, and swims to Martha's Vineyard.
This is not the reason why. He actually did this after he made this proposal, and it was flatly refused.
And Joe Gargan reiterated, we have to report this action. We have to report it now. Ted Kennedy grows angry, says to him, all right, all right.
I'm tired of listening to you. I'll take care of it. You go back to the cottage. Don't tell girls anything about the accident.
I don't want them involved. I'll take care of it. Opens the car door, takes two steps, jumps into the water, swims away.
Swims to the main island. Swims to the main island. A hundred and twenty-five yards away. A hundred and, yeah, around that.
He makes it back to the hotel that he is staying in. He goes up to his room, changes his clothes, dries his hair, comes down an outdoor stairway,
confronts the manager of the hotel, and tells him, I've been asleep. Not true. And I was awakened by noises of a party. What time is it?
Do you allege he said that, or indeed orchestrated the entire encounter to build an alibi?
Absolutely. That's what he was doing. He was, as a matter of fact, implementing the alternative scenario he had proposed to Mr. Gargan
that Mr. Gargan refused to go along with on the assumption that ultimately Joey Gargan would do what he told him he wanted done.
We have been told for years that the reason Senator Kennedy never sounded the alarm after the accident was that he was deeply in shock.
Indeed, that he had a concussion and contusions and was otherwise the victim of a terrible crash.
That's true. Confused.
He was not confused. Joe Gargan told me that he said, we had a guy at the landing who was fully capable of reporting his own accident
because I asked him repeatedly, was he in a state of shock? And he says no. Until he dove into the water and swam to Edgar Town. He was completely capable.
The next morning, Joe Gargan, Paul Markham, confront the Senator.
That's true.
Had he reported the accident by the time they confronted him?
He told them in his hotel room, I haven't reported it. They said to him, my God, this is even worse than it was last night.
We've got to report the accident. We've got to report it now. He says, I'm going to say Mary Jo Kopeckne was driving the car.
He said that to Joe Gargan?
He said that to Joe Gargan and to Paul Markham. And again, Joe Gargan says to him, you can't say that because you can be placed at the scene of the accident.
He still does not want to report the accident. He wants to talk to his aide, David Burke, in Washington.
So they come out of the Shire Town Inn. They go down to the ferry, take it across Chappaquiddick to the landing where they had been the previous night.
And he uses that particular pay telephone. He is on the telephone with his aide, who is in Virginia, who is urging him.
You've got to pay attention to these two guys. You've got to report this accident and you've got to report it now.
He still does not want to report the accident. However, coming over on the ferry boat is an auto wrecker with its red light flashing.
And it occurs to everybody that now, obviously, the automobile has been located at the bridge.
And he has no alternative. It's 9.30 now, but to report the accident.
They discovered the car before he reported the accident?
Oh, absolutely. An hour and a half earlier.
This is the question I have for you, Leslie. Given what you know now, assuming everything Joe Gargan, Ted Kennedy's cousin, has told Leo is the truth,
the question I have for you, would you have indicted Senator Edward Kennedy for manslaughter?
Hold the answer. We'll be right back.
Leslie Leland, you're back on that grand jury. You're back 19 years ago. This very different case has been presented to you.
Do you indict the driver of this car for manslaughter?
Yes. Along with the other information that would have been made available to us, I'm sure that an indictment would have been brought in.
And history would have been different.
Yes. Was an autopsy ever done on Mary Jo's body?
It was not.
Why not?
There was concern on the part of Mary Jo Kapecki's parents and also in the Kennedy camp that an autopsy possibly could have revealed the residual traces of male ejaculate.
And for that reason, they did not want to take the chance.
Did the Kennedys try to stop you from writing your book? Were they aware of the book being written?
Yes.
What did they do, quickly?
Well, I wrote this book under a contract with Random House that amounted to $250,000.
After I handed in this book, Random House canceled the contract and took me to court.
And they managed to keep this book off the market for approximately four years.
Does Joe Gargan stand by what he told you?
He certainly does.
I would like to know how long did it take Joe Gargan to finally come forward with this information?
And what now is Ted Kennedy's reaction to his cousins betraying him?
I don't know. Well, I wouldn't refer to this as a betrayal. This is telling the truth.
It's a good question, though.
But it is a good question.
I had interviews with Mr. Gargan, who I met originally in 1982, and it took approximately a year for him to tell me the complete total story.
Has there been a reaction from the Kennedy camp?
The reaction from the Kennedy camp is that this book is a rehash only of rumor and innuendo.
Your response to that?
My response is to read this book. There is no rumor. There is no innuendo. These are facts.
It certainly seems heavily laced with quotes to me.
The way 20 years ago with drunk driving laws and everything like that, they weren't quite the same as they are now.
If one person would have seen him, it wouldn't have been any big deal.
He could have said, you know, don't say anything. Don't say anything, you know, I'm drunk. Pay him off.
Don't just, you know, say I'm drunk, but don't say anything. There's a girl in the car.
I'm sure the guy would have went along with it. He wasn't, you know...
Maybe, maybe not. I'm not so sure about that.
He didn't know that that was going to happen. He didn't know that was going to happen.
Excuse me. I was in a car accident. My car flipped over, not exactly in the water, but it was a really bad car accident.
And the five of us were in a state of shock. I mean, we couldn't talk for hours.
I don't think you're putting enough weight on the fact that Senator Kennedy was in this car accident.
Maybe things he said he really...
What about that?
Well, I'll respond to that. The other two gentlemen, Gargan and Markham, who were there to help rescue, were not in the accident.
They were not in a state of shock. They hadn't even participated in the original accident.
So there was no excuse for them not to report the accident immediately, a call for professional help.
Except Senator Kennedy told them not to.
That's correct.
I understand Joe Capecchi was pregnant two months and they paid off her parents.
The news reports, news reports at that time.
All of the evidence that I have does not indicate at all that...
Did they have an affair?
I think that that evening they had a romantic encounter.
And that accounts for the time of the hour and a half that he left the party.
To the crash.
And to the crash.
We'll be right back.
Yes.
Privilege, the question I have for you, have you received any flak or threats from the Kennedy camp as a result of the accident?
Not directly from them, but from, shall we say, their allies.
Has Joe Gargan been approached by them or threatened by them? Does he still communicate with Ted?
Yes, he still communicates.
But you see, he's a free man now. He's his own man.
You see, Joe Gargan was always regarded as an appendage of the Kennedys.
And he no longer is that. He's his own man.
This is his Declaration of Independence.
This is his Declaration of Independence.
We invite anyone from the Kennedys.