because I didn't want to serve with someone unless I was going to be a part
of a team and and could feel like I could make a difference and I'd be
listened to but I talked to a number of people that had worked with him and I
was told time and time again that he would listen to a differing point of
view and could be convinced if you could marshal the facts sufficiently and
that's when I decided if he'd call me I'd sign up. Senator in some areas of the
country as much as three-quarters of the electorate is saying it's
dissatisfied with the choice. In others it's half. In any event that's an
enormously large number of people who don't like these two guys. In fact in
many cases they say you're the only one they do like of the four. Now what is
causing this? Why are people so turned off? Why are we going to have a 50%
turnout? Johnny I believe one of the major reasons for it
A deluge of it. Millions of dollars spent on 30-second sound bites, commercials
very artfully and cleverly put together but talking about emotional issues that
really should be settled perhaps at the county or certainly at no more than the
state level and trying to make national issues out of them but they've had
they've had an effect and they've hurt and they've demeaned the process. The
American people deserve better than that. We ought to have had a lively debate on
foreign affairs, on the budget deficit, on the trade deficit, education, health care
those kinds of things. That's what we should have been talking about and
that's what Mike Dukakis and I tried to talk about. Senator let's
presume if you if you will entertain such a bizarre notion that you'll lose
that we have President Bush in January. We also have Lloyd Benson back in the
Senate because you're running for two offices. Are you going to be with that
group of southern senators who have been saying don't worry we're not going to
forget what kind of campaign George Bush ran. We're going to stick it to him when
he gets into the White House. Will you be one of those people as chairman of the
Senate Finance Committee? Johnny we have too much at stake in this country to be
to try to seek revenge or something like that. We're on a mountain of debt in this
country. Our budget deficit and our trade deficit and those things just have to be
turned around. Do you think you can work with President Bush? I'd work with any
president for my country. I'd help him when I thought he was right and I tried
to block him when I thought he was wrong. That's what I hired out to do. Do you
think we're in any danger of a stalemate starting in January if Mr. Bush is
elected? He is coming he's going to come into office it seems to most of us with
very little mandate on specific ideas attitudes issues. Johnny you're
absolutely right as far as his having no mandate no question about that. I
frankly I don't think either candidate at this point has a serious mandate. I
think that Mike Dukakis would have more of one and I believe as a vice president
and with my relationship with the Congress that I could be of help in
getting a legislative calendar through. But let me say again there's just too
much at stake here not to try to work with a president to see that we resolve
these problems and and I'll do that that doesn't mean I'll agree with him every
time and there are times I'll disagree and when I do disagree then I'll oppose
him with everything I have. But their concerns too for the working men and
women of America that are really having a tough time they're in a squeeze used
to get by with one paycheck in the family now take two or three. Senator
Jesse Jackson is quoted today as saying that if Dukakis loses on Tuesday that
the new political season begins on Wednesday and hinting that he will run
it once again for president. What do you think of that? Well if that happened I
think you'd have several of them running but including Lloyd Benson? Well I
believe that in 1992 I'll be running for re-election as vice president and Mike
Dukakis will be finishing it first and successful term of office. How concerned
are you though that if Dukakis loses on Tuesday Jesse Jackson is gonna make a
rush to try to take over the party try and take over through a surrogate the
Democratic National Committee and start as he indicates perhaps running for
president right away. We have a great diversification in the party we have a
lot of able people in it and they'll be vying with each other that's
part of the process you accept that and understand that. Senator you were critical
when you were on this program six weeks or eight weeks ago of Senator
Quayle said that he had shown no qualifications to be vice president have
you changed your view about him at all? David I think what I said there were so
many heavyweights in the Republican Party they would have I thought be much
better qualified that I was quite surprised that George Bush didn't choose
one of them. I think the first obligation of a presidential candidate is to choose
a vice presidential candidate that if some something happens to the president
that person can step in there that's the first obligation I think in this case
that Roger Ailes and some of the image makers convinced George Bush that here
is a man that could be packaged he's telegenic attractive fellow personable
and they could sell it but I think that was a serious mistake and misjudgment
and I think the American people have reflected that. Senator thanks very much
thanks for joining us today we appreciate it. Good to be with you. And in
a moment my colleagues and I will take our own look at the last-minute
campaigning and may even make some fearless predictions. Coming up when meet
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Gentlemen let's start with the horse race as we've been saying all morning
the latest poll shows that it's now a five-point horse race. David can Mike
Dukakis still turn this thing around? I don't think so Chris. Texas, Ohio, New
Jersey still look to me like a roadblock to the 270 electoral votes.
Johnny? I don't think he's gonna do it but I was around in 1948 I'm not gonna
say he can't do it. It's 50 to 1 against him as David says key states don't seem
to be going his way but I don't think we should come here this morning and end
the campaign. We can wait 48 hours. If Dukakis does in fact lose I'm sure
there's gonna be a lot of second-guessing. In fact there already is
some. What do you both think is the single biggest mistake that win or lose
Mike Dukakis made since the convention? A Michigan Democrat put it this way when
you win a nomination you've got two challenges. One is to expand the circle
and the other is to decentralize the campaign. He was very reluctant to do
either and I think it has cost him very dearly. To elaborate a bit on that
people all over the country have been saying to win this state you need to do
the following. For example in Texas they badgered him to do something about the
gun control issue which the Republicans have exploited. He wouldn't do it until
it was very very late. It cost him dear. Besides the White House the other big
story on Tuesday night of course will be the Senate where the Democrats now
enjoy a 54-46 majority. David what's gonna happen there? I think the Democrats
are gonna strengthen themselves in the Senate. Maybe a two-seat game. So we're
talking 56-44. Our math is great here today.
55-45 marginal gain. Well what does that do for quote new President Bush if
instead of carrying in a Republican majority in the Senate in fact the
Democrats are even more powerful. There's gonna be a real tug-of-war here and
maybe that's what the voters want Chris. Maybe they're saying these issues are a
little bit too complicated you guys figure it out and we'll let you fight
over the future of the country. In fact a surprising number of voters have been
saying to me while I've been wandering the country the last eight weeks exactly
that. This is not some kind of notion that political science professors and
journalists cook up. Ordinary folks say oh let one party have one and the
other party have the other if they can agree fine otherwise we don't have any
trouble. You know a lot of people are saying that this has been the worst
presidential campaign in memory. The most negative, the worst choice of candidates.
You both have been at it a long time. Is it the worst in your memory? No not in
mine. I would say the 72 campaign was worse. The Democrats self-destructed in
early September. George McGovern did and Richard Nixon went through that whole
campaign without I believe a single news conference or anything. The dialogue has
not been elevated but there's been a little dialogue in this campaign. Johnny
you got about 15 seconds. I think it has been the worst in the sense that it's
been the most disappointing. These guys were capable of better. I don't think
McGovern and Nixon were. Gentlemen thank you both and thank you both for helping
me out throughout this long campaign season. Our quotation of the week comes
from someone who was talked about as a possible candidate this year but who
declined. Democratic House Majority Leader Tom Foley. Foley said recently I
think the way we choose presidents has terrible flaws. I know of any number of
people who I think would make good presidents, even great presidents, who are
deterred from running by the torture candidates are obliged to put themselves
through. And that's Meet the Press for this week. I'm Chris Wallace. Join Tom
Brokaw and the NBC News team tonight for a special election preview called Is This
Any Way to Elect a President? That's at 7 p.m. Eastern Time 6 Central and for all
of us here at NBC News, have a good week.
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Ethanol blends reduce deadly carbon monoxide emissions significantly and
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lungs. Meet the Press has been sponsored by the Archer Daniels Midland Company, ADM,
supermarket to the world. For a printed transcript of Meet the Press, send one
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you