because I didn't want to serve with someone unless I was going to be a part of a team and and could feel like I could make a difference and I'd be listened to but I talked to a number of people that had worked with him and I was told time and time again that he would listen to a differing point of view and could be convinced if you could marshal the facts sufficiently and that's when I decided if he'd call me I'd sign up. Senator in some areas of the country as much as three-quarters of the electorate is saying it's dissatisfied with the choice. In others it's half. In any event that's an enormously large number of people who don't like these two guys. In fact in many cases they say you're the only one they do like of the four. Now what is causing this? Why are people so turned off? Why are we going to have a 50% turnout? Johnny I believe one of the major reasons for it A deluge of it. Millions of dollars spent on 30-second sound bites, commercials very artfully and cleverly put together but talking about emotional issues that really should be settled perhaps at the county or certainly at no more than the state level and trying to make national issues out of them but they've had they've had an effect and they've hurt and they've demeaned the process. The American people deserve better than that. We ought to have had a lively debate on foreign affairs, on the budget deficit, on the trade deficit, education, health care those kinds of things. That's what we should have been talking about and that's what Mike Dukakis and I tried to talk about. Senator let's presume if you if you will entertain such a bizarre notion that you'll lose that we have President Bush in January. We also have Lloyd Benson back in the Senate because you're running for two offices. Are you going to be with that group of southern senators who have been saying don't worry we're not going to forget what kind of campaign George Bush ran. We're going to stick it to him when he gets into the White House. Will you be one of those people as chairman of the Senate Finance Committee? Johnny we have too much at stake in this country to be to try to seek revenge or something like that. We're on a mountain of debt in this country. Our budget deficit and our trade deficit and those things just have to be turned around. Do you think you can work with President Bush? I'd work with any president for my country. I'd help him when I thought he was right and I tried to block him when I thought he was wrong. That's what I hired out to do. Do you think we're in any danger of a stalemate starting in January if Mr. Bush is elected? He is coming he's going to come into office it seems to most of us with very little mandate on specific ideas attitudes issues. Johnny you're absolutely right as far as his having no mandate no question about that. I frankly I don't think either candidate at this point has a serious mandate. I think that Mike Dukakis would have more of one and I believe as a vice president and with my relationship with the Congress that I could be of help in getting a legislative calendar through. But let me say again there's just too much at stake here not to try to work with a president to see that we resolve these problems and and I'll do that that doesn't mean I'll agree with him every time and there are times I'll disagree and when I do disagree then I'll oppose him with everything I have. But their concerns too for the working men and women of America that are really having a tough time they're in a squeeze used to get by with one paycheck in the family now take two or three. Senator Jesse Jackson is quoted today as saying that if Dukakis loses on Tuesday that the new political season begins on Wednesday and hinting that he will run it once again for president. What do you think of that? Well if that happened I think you'd have several of them running but including Lloyd Benson? Well I believe that in 1992 I'll be running for re-election as vice president and Mike Dukakis will be finishing it first and successful term of office. How concerned are you though that if Dukakis loses on Tuesday Jesse Jackson is gonna make a rush to try to take over the party try and take over through a surrogate the Democratic National Committee and start as he indicates perhaps running for president right away. We have a great diversification in the party we have a lot of able people in it and they'll be vying with each other that's part of the process you accept that and understand that. Senator you were critical when you were on this program six weeks or eight weeks ago of Senator Quayle said that he had shown no qualifications to be vice president have you changed your view about him at all? David I think what I said there were so many heavyweights in the Republican Party they would have I thought be much better qualified that I was quite surprised that George Bush didn't choose one of them. I think the first obligation of a presidential candidate is to choose a vice presidential candidate that if some something happens to the president that person can step in there that's the first obligation I think in this case that Roger Ailes and some of the image makers convinced George Bush that here is a man that could be packaged he's telegenic attractive fellow personable and they could sell it but I think that was a serious mistake and misjudgment and I think the American people have reflected that. Senator thanks very much thanks for joining us today we appreciate it. Good to be with you. And in a moment my colleagues and I will take our own look at the last-minute campaigning and may even make some fearless predictions. Coming up when meet the press return each day we make enough flour for 25 million loaves of bread but we're not a baker we make enough sweeteners each day for 92 million soft drinks but we're not a bottler we also produce enough protein meal each day to meet the daily requirements of 30 million head of cattle and yet we're not a butcher either. We're the Archer Daniels Midland Company a major link in America's food chain. Each day our processing plants are capable of transforming more than 3.5 million bushels of grain and oil seeds into food and feed ingredients. Corn, wheat, soybeans, peanuts, sunflowers, barley, flax, sugar cane, cotton seed. At ADM we're helping America use its agricultural abundance to feed the world so you can understand why we look at harvest time so optimistically. After all it's not the end of this crop it's just begun to grow. Who would you say makes the best personal computers for business? The brand being added by the most major corporations? The one rated highest in performance by computer experts? The one that won the most industry awards? Or the one that's grown the fastest? Hard coal right? Not really. In each case the answer is compact. It simply works better. Gentlemen let's start with the horse race as we've been saying all morning the latest poll shows that it's now a five-point horse race. David can Mike Dukakis still turn this thing around? I don't think so Chris. Texas, Ohio, New Jersey still look to me like a roadblock to the 270 electoral votes. Johnny? I don't think he's gonna do it but I was around in 1948 I'm not gonna say he can't do it. It's 50 to 1 against him as David says key states don't seem to be going his way but I don't think we should come here this morning and end the campaign. We can wait 48 hours. If Dukakis does in fact lose I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of second-guessing. In fact there already is some. What do you both think is the single biggest mistake that win or lose Mike Dukakis made since the convention? A Michigan Democrat put it this way when you win a nomination you've got two challenges. One is to expand the circle and the other is to decentralize the campaign. He was very reluctant to do either and I think it has cost him very dearly. To elaborate a bit on that people all over the country have been saying to win this state you need to do the following. For example in Texas they badgered him to do something about the gun control issue which the Republicans have exploited. He wouldn't do it until it was very very late. It cost him dear. Besides the White House the other big story on Tuesday night of course will be the Senate where the Democrats now enjoy a 54-46 majority. David what's gonna happen there? I think the Democrats are gonna strengthen themselves in the Senate. Maybe a two-seat game. So we're talking 56-44. Our math is great here today. 55-45 marginal gain. Well what does that do for quote new President Bush if instead of carrying in a Republican majority in the Senate in fact the Democrats are even more powerful. There's gonna be a real tug-of-war here and maybe that's what the voters want Chris. Maybe they're saying these issues are a little bit too complicated you guys figure it out and we'll let you fight over the future of the country. In fact a surprising number of voters have been saying to me while I've been wandering the country the last eight weeks exactly that. This is not some kind of notion that political science professors and journalists cook up. Ordinary folks say oh let one party have one and the other party have the other if they can agree fine otherwise we don't have any trouble. You know a lot of people are saying that this has been the worst presidential campaign in memory. The most negative, the worst choice of candidates. You both have been at it a long time. Is it the worst in your memory? No not in mine. I would say the 72 campaign was worse. The Democrats self-destructed in early September. George McGovern did and Richard Nixon went through that whole campaign without I believe a single news conference or anything. The dialogue has not been elevated but there's been a little dialogue in this campaign. Johnny you got about 15 seconds. I think it has been the worst in the sense that it's been the most disappointing. These guys were capable of better. I don't think McGovern and Nixon were. Gentlemen thank you both and thank you both for helping me out throughout this long campaign season. Our quotation of the week comes from someone who was talked about as a possible candidate this year but who declined. Democratic House Majority Leader Tom Foley. Foley said recently I think the way we choose presidents has terrible flaws. I know of any number of people who I think would make good presidents, even great presidents, who are deterred from running by the torture candidates are obliged to put themselves through. And that's Meet the Press for this week. I'm Chris Wallace. Join Tom Brokaw and the NBC News team tonight for a special election preview called Is This Any Way to Elect a President? That's at 7 p.m. Eastern Time 6 Central and for all of us here at NBC News, have a good week. For as long as we've been pumping gasoline, we've been pumping poisonous carbon monoxide into our air. It wasn't a major problem at first. There were simply fewer cars on the road. But over the years as we pumped more gasoline, our carbon monoxide emissions have grown too. And even though today's cleaner burning cars have helped reduce carbon monoxide levels, the problem persists for everyone. But part of a solution is already here, ethanol blended fuels. Ethanol blends reduce deadly carbon monoxide emissions significantly and help hold down ozone pollution in our cities. And a detergent in ethanol keeps engines running cleanly. That makes one conclusion perfectly clear. The more ethanol blends we pump into our cars, the less carbon monoxide we pump into our lungs. Meet the Press has been sponsored by the Archer Daniels Midland Company, ADM, supermarket to the world. For a printed transcript of Meet the Press, send one dollar and a stamped self-addressed envelope to Kelly Press, Mox 12160, Silver Spring, Maryland, 209.08. you